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stopping distance - SCARY
Topic Started: Jul 5 2015, 11:43 PM (1,684 Views)
orfeo
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:hmm I've owned 3-cylinder, manual transmission, Geo Metros for the last 20 years. The one I have had for the last 10+ years is a '95 LSi hatch. The stopping distance scares me. I'm not sure that anything is necessarily wrong with it, but I really do wonder. Whenever I have an emergency stop on perfectly dry pavement, the car just skids like it's on a damp street. Scary stuff at times.

With all the modders and project-heads on here, has anybody here ever worked out effective ways to significantly shorten the stopping distance of these little cars? I usually keep my tire pressure at about 36 psi.
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myredvert
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myredvert

Quote:
 
Whenever I have an emergency stop on perfectly dry pavement, the car just skids like it's on a damp street. Scary stuff at times.
One technique is to increase your following distances to a normal recommended intervals, that has been known to significantly helps reduce the need for locking the brakes up.

Out of curiosity, why would you need to more than rarely ever need to lock up the brakes?

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solerpower
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Yeah. Just swap in the front brakes from a GT(i), and switch in the the disc rear brakes from a GT(i). There are plenty of threads on how this is accomplished. There are even more upgrades out there, like the brackets and calipers from a 2005+ Suzuki swift, or 88-91 Honda Si calipers. These additional upgrades require the GT(i) hubs. None of these upgrades as far as I have read require upgrading brake master cylinder. There is also other custom order products that are just expensive to purchase also. The other thing to consider is wider tires, stainless steel brake lines, or just new brake lines would help. I have a 1992 Suzuki Swift GT with 185 14's and I can tell you it stops amazingly well, not just in comparison with say a 1992 Geo Metro. In fact the 1994 and earlier Geo Metros have even less stopping power. However, I have yet to have a stopping problem in the 1992 Geo Metro.
Edited by solerpower, Jul 6 2015, 12:03 AM.
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Coche Blanco
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Troll Certified

If you are sliding, it isn't your brakes.
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perfesser
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Elite Member - Former Metro owner

I had a car that would lock 'em up easy and slide. It would also spin 'em on the paint lines at a crosswalk - in the dry! I took the cheap tires off it and slapped on a set of Pirellis and it completely transformed that car's character!!
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Ephemeral Glade
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I have not read any complaints about the later model's braking performance. You can't just run down to the junk yard and get some GT or GTI brakes( unless you happen to be in the right place at the right time). I have a project thread here where I swapped the front calipers and rotors out for ones from a 1995 Galant. I am confident that this is the most powerful and effective brake set up you can have without buying some Wilwood or other racing parts kit. You would need rims that were at least 15" in diameter to make it work. Like I said, though, maybe you should be looking at your tires/ wheels first.
Edited by Ephemeral Glade, Jul 6 2015, 01:24 AM.
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Woodie
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First you need to make sure that all four wheels are braking. Then if it just skids, it's your tires.
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Dattman
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Worn shocks and bad wheel alignment will also greatly increase stopping distances, get some decent tires and try again, skinny hard tires don't give you much grip for either cornering or braking.
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Stubby79
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I would have to try very hard to lock up my brakes on my '95. And I drive on some cheap chinese tires (don't lame me, they came with the car) that are pumped up to their max rated tire pressure...I've had to make a couple of sudden/quick stops from a significant speed and it performed admirably.

I wonder if someone has messed with your brake proportioning valve, and you're locking up just the rears? Or perhaps it's the brand/type of brake pad material. But, I agree with everyone else, it's most likely the tires. Also check that they're wearing evenly...I suppose if your alignment is way off, you'd lose a lot of traction.
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calrenman
Just another wrench.

List: GR2 struts x4, New Drilled and Slotted rotors, Ceramic Pads, new Calipers, New wheel cylinders, New brake shoes, Turn the drums, (master cylinder?) Good tires (I have Michelins).

Check your wheel bearings and Ball joints, bushings (front and rear).

I did all of the above(less calipers and wheel cylinders). My car is safe, it stops predictably and rides well!

Good Luck.

Your life is worth it!
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Silver2K


I've had the same issue with my 2000 4/5 sedan. I have learned to keep a longer distance to compensate. And I have also learned to identify / anticipate when the tires are going to lock up and release the brakes to regain traction, then reapply the brakes. It helps to keep the radio down so you can hear the tires. But the simplest fix is to get wider tires. If you are using 155s go to 175s. That will get you more traction.

When I complained about skidding some time ago someone suggested adjusting the proportioning valve. But after Googling the subject I concluded it was safer to leave it alone.
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don_dowdy
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My 96 was doing that a while back. New tires took care of it.
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orfeo
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Okay, for those who asked:

In the almost 11 years that I have had this car, I have had occasion to lock-up the brakes exactly 3 times. First time was with Firestone tires. Second time was with Sears Guardsman tires. Third was with Kumho Solus. 155 80 R13

I am a VERY careful driver with zero tickets & zero accidents on my driving record.

It is the front brakes which lock-up.

Front pads and rotors are perfect (Wagner ThermoQuiet pads).

Alignment is perfect.

Mint KYB struts all around.
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rmcelwee
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Skinny tires and fat tires under the same PSI and rubber will have the same contact patch. In auto-x where cornering is extremely important you increase, rather than decrease your tire pressure before a race.
Edited by rmcelwee, Jul 16 2015, 01:34 PM.
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orfeo
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FWIW, I have never had to replace the rear brake-pads or re-surface the drums. . . in 11 years. They hardly wear. Several mechanics have told me this is totally normal, and that the fronts always do most of the work.

I still wonder if maybe the rears should do more work to help stopping.
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