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| Still Trouble with Starting!! | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 21 2015, 01:27 PM (1,548 Views) | |
| RedwoodGuy | Jul 21 2015, 01:27 PM Post #1 |
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A few weeks ago I did the relay modification and put a nice 30A relay in the ignition/starter circuit. I assumed the problem would be done with. WRONG! Twice now I have been stranded with a dead ignition - no starting. In common with both times it was quite hot out. Like 110F. In one case, I waited 2 hours, pounded on the started, fiddled with the wires and then it started. Today, it just happened an hour ago and the car is down the street. I assume that now, there is not enough current from keyswitch to my new relay to trip the relay?? Is there a BULLETPROOF way to wire these cars to start every time? Not sure what else I can do? |
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| Hotrodray1 | Jul 21 2015, 01:46 PM Post #2 |
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Over Educated parts guy
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You need to check for voltage to the relay from the key switch when it does this. If it is 12 volts the need to get starter checked could have bad spot in armature or the windings are swelling from the heat binding up starter. Has there been a oil leak near starter that could have let oil soak in to the starter? If so that could be your problem. Good Luck. Oh yea I guess the relay could also be bad. |
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| David95237 | Jul 21 2015, 02:17 PM Post #3 |
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First thing you need to do is see if the relay is clicking. You can always add a push button for the stater. |
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| RedwoodGuy | Jul 21 2015, 02:38 PM Post #4 |
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a few minutes ago here's what I did. 1. I pulled the wire off the "spade terminal" on the solenoid. This is the one that goes back to the relay I installed. 2. I put a free length of wire with a spade onto that solenoid spade terminal and then touched the other bare end to the +battery terminal. Car started immediately. I removed my free wire and drove home. I can't check the "relay clicking" on my own from inside the car when I am stuck alone. So, no way to know. If I knew how to put in a push button and get rid of this problem forever I would do it instantly. Because if the car remains like this, I will be forced to sell it. I can't have a car leaving me stranded at random places. Is is easy to wire the button? |
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| Metromightymouse | Jul 21 2015, 05:20 PM Post #5 |
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Powdercoat Wizard
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Read the thread linked in my signature and follow the tests and the process for solving the issue and you should be golden, assuming it's the clicky starter issue. |
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| RedwoodGuy | Jul 21 2015, 07:22 PM Post #6 |
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thanks mighty. Do you know how much current it actually takes to activate the solenoid? YOURS was the diagrams I used to install my relay. Yes, the wire from batt to solenoid works every time. Edited by RedwoodGuy, Jul 21 2015, 07:29 PM.
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| Metromightymouse | Jul 22 2015, 04:50 AM Post #7 |
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Powdercoat Wizard
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I don't know the specs, but if a jumper works and your relay set up doesn't something is up. I would start by getting where you can hear the relay click, either by opening everything and leaning out or by moving it inside the cabin. You need to determine if the relay is actuating when you turn the key. If it isn't, check the voltage at the relay from the ignition switch when the key is turned. If there is no voltage then either the ignition switch or the clutch safety switch are bad or there is a bad wire or connection somewhere on that side of the circuit. It takes very little current to actuate the relay, so even if the voltage is a little low the relay should still be triggering. If the relay is actuating and the starter isn't then I would double check your wiring from the battery to the starter solenoid and make sure it's not loose or anything. if you check the voltage at the solenoid with the relay triggered, you should see battery voltage. Any less and there is a problem with the wires or the relay. |
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| Silver2K | Jul 22 2015, 10:00 AM Post #8 |
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Agree with MMM. If it starts by directly connecting to the battery, then there is something wrong with your relay set up. If you give up on the relay and decide to put a switch / button / toggle, you mount a switch on the dashboard. You can get a high amp switch at any auto part store. I paid $11 at Autozone for one. One side of the switch would goes to a hot circuit (when running). It must be fused. By that I mean put an in line fuse to whatever wire you add. The other side of the switch would tap into the wire that goes to the spade on the starter. For example, find the clutch position sensor which is a small switch under the dash attached to the clutch pedal. It detects when you have depressed the pedal. One side of the CPS goes directly to the spade on the starter, the other side goes to the ignition switch. Tap into the ignition side if you want to maintain CPS functionality, the spade side if you don't care. I would invest some time figuring out the relay before adding a switch. But that's just me. Edited by Silver2K, Jul 22 2015, 10:29 AM.
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| RedwoodGuy | Jul 22 2015, 10:33 AM Post #9 |
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Thanks Mighty. Unfortunately, this trouble is intermittent. It starts correctly 99 out of 100 times. Then, when I least expect it - - no start. So, all things always check out fine. The relay works, voltages are correct and so on whenever testing. The relay is under the hood. I can't hear is from inside where I would turn the key. I kinda doubt it is a relay trouble, because this 99/100 ratio has been true since I bought the car, and well before I put the relay in. In other words, it was failing 1/100 and I put the relay in thinking that would end the problem, and now it is still failing 1/100! (It's actually a random number, but I approximate it as 1/100). It feels to me like something in the KEY switch - or is it called ignitiion switch. Like a resistance. Maybe I can check the voltage to the relay with wife turning the key? |
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| Old Man | Jul 22 2015, 11:31 AM Post #10 |
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easy fix: http://geometroforum.com/topic/1964712/1/ |
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| Metromightymouse | Jul 22 2015, 04:33 PM Post #11 |
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Powdercoat Wizard
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Yeah, the intermittent issue is always toughest. I would try to figure out a way to hear the relay when it isn't working so you can get an idea where the issue is. I'm betting the issue is in the ignition switch or the clutch safety switch. You might set up a temporary jumper so you can start it when it is inconvenient to troubleshoot and it won't start. All you need is enough wire to jump from the start wire on the relay to the battery. When it won't start and you have a little time I would work the ignition switch around a little and see if it will kick and then work the clutch a few times to see if that will cure it. It is possible the relay is bad, but since it's behaving as it had before I think that is less likely. If jumpering to the starter wire on the relay doesn't work then that is a clue to what is going on. |
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| RedwoodGuy | Jul 23 2015, 03:41 PM Post #12 |
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Ok, new information. I checked all my relay voltages and they looked correct. I cleaned the spade contacts and reinstalled the relay lead. No START. I remembered a post about sticking contacts, so, I got a long wrench against the started and banged it with a hammer a couple times. Started right up. It would seem that the "contacts" inside the solenoid are in some way sticking. I have no idea what that might look like physically. Looks like a new solenoid is in order? I then installed an emergency jumper wire for future use by cutting into the hot solendoid lead from the relay, and patching in a wire with bare end that will reach the +12 battery terminal. I can touch the wire to the battery and energize the solenoid. Since that has also worked in the past, it is now easier than trying to place the wire on the spade terminal when the engine is hot. No more removing the air cleaner and so on. BUT, it looks like I need some new parts. Is it hard to pull the starter assembly and replace the solenoid??? |
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| ptcapboy | Jul 23 2015, 03:56 PM Post #13 |
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I'd just replace the starter and solenoid as a unit-comes that way from the parts store-but I wouldn't turn in your core until you're sure the new one fixes your problem- |
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| David95237 | Jul 23 2015, 04:00 PM Post #14 |
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If it starts reliably with that jumper wire, the starter is not the problem. |
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| RedwoodGuy | Jul 23 2015, 06:17 PM Post #15 |
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No, it doesn't start reliably with the jumper. It's odd. I thought it did, but in fact, it today, the jumper would do nothing until I BANGED on the starter. |
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