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hard starting after ignition pick up failure
Topic Started: Aug 21 2015, 06:18 AM (812 Views)
godtoh1313
New Member
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1994 metro 1.0 auto: was driving into work the other morning when all of a sudden the engine died. "really thought I snapped a timing belt" but while checking it to see if timing belt was broke I removed the distributor cap to find copper strands all twisted around rotor shaft, changed out the ignition pickup and then started the car but noticed it cranked much longer than normal decided to look at it after getting home and changed spark plugs they were not to bad but a fresh set couldn't hurt. but it was still hard to start. I checked timing with a timing light and its set at 5btc where it should be I thought maybe the copper strands got bound in the distributor and caused it to jump time. it idles just fine once started what could be causing this. the car started perfect before this happened. it also seems to be lacking in power, also seems to use more gas the little bit I have drove it since this problem, checked a vacuum line on the front of throttle body had very little vacuum at idle but increased when I increased throttle. please help. thanks
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freegeo
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godtoh1313
Aug 21 2015, 06:18 AM
1994 metro 1.0 auto: was driving into work the other morning when all of a sudden the engine died. "really thought I snapped a timing belt" but while checking it to see if timing belt was broke I removed the distributor cap to find copper strands all twisted around rotor shaft, changed out the ignition pickup and then started the car but noticed it cranked much longer than normal decided to look at it after getting home and changed spark plugs they were not to bad but a fresh set couldn't hurt. but it was still hard to start. I checked timing with a timing light and its set at 5btc where it should be I thought maybe the copper strands got bound in the distributor and caused it to jump time. it idles just fine once started what could be causing this. the car started perfect before this happened. it also seems to be lacking in power, also seems to use more gas the little bit I have drove it since this problem, checked a vacuum line on the front of throttle body had very little vacuum at idle but increased when I increased throttle. please help. thanks
When you replaced the CMP did you set the gap?

If you haven't seen the 94 FSM link here on the forum here it is.

http://geometroforum.com/topic/5044844/1/#new The section you are looking for is 06D4 IGNITION SYSTEM.

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GeoHam
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Yep, been there done that. My 96 did the same without any warning. The tiny shards of copper wire were everywhere, so I pulled the distributor to make sure I removed it all. Rather easy to set the gap on the bench compared to bending over under the hood.
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godtoh1313
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what is the best way to rotate the distributor shaft for alignment without removing the distributor or how hard is it to remove it and get it back in the right position?
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idmetro
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godtoh1313
Aug 21 2015, 12:24 PM
what is the best way to rotate the distributor shaft for alignment without removing the distributor or how hard is it to remove it and get it back in the right position?
If you are in the right position to start with it's easy to remove/replace. Just take a sharpie and make a match mark before you remove it, not where the rotor is pointing, remove and do the work, then replace with rotor in the same orientation - line up the match mark, tighten the bolts, replace the cap and you are done.
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David95237


BTW the distributor only goes in one way.
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Hanuman
"The Almighty Grounds Cleaner"

the cam position sensor (pick up coil) is inside the distributor under the rotor.
remove the cap. its black. 2 philips screws.
signal voltage while cranking is 0.10 to 0.40 volts A/C
star rotor to pick up coil gap is 0.2mm to 0.4mm

Set the gap using a brass feeler guage
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freegeo
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godtoh1313
Aug 21 2015, 06:18 AM
1994 metro 1.0 auto: was driving into work the other morning when all of a sudden the engine died. "really thought I snapped a timing belt" but while checking it to see if timing belt was broke I removed the distributor cap to find copper strands all twisted around rotor shaft, changed out the ignition pickup and then started the car but noticed it cranked much longer than normal decided to look at it after getting home and changed spark plugs they were not to bad but a fresh set couldn't hurt. but it was still hard to start. I checked timing with a timing light and its set at 5btc where it should be I thought maybe the copper strands got bound in the distributor and caused it to jump time. it idles just fine once started what could be causing this. the car started perfect before this happened. it also seems to be lacking in power, also seems to use more gas the little bit I have drove it since this problem, checked a vacuum line on the front of throttle body had very little vacuum at idle but increased when I increased throttle. please help. thanks
Quote:
 
checked a vacuum line on the front of throttle body had very little vacuum at idle but increased when I increased throttle.


Which vacuum line did you check? You should attach a vacuum gauge to the map sensor like in the picture below.
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godtoh1313
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removed the distributor set the gap re-installed the distributor and started right up. installed jumper wire to check base timing and found it to be set at 0 so I set it to 5btc and its running great even better than before. found a crack in the vacuum line and replaced it now all is good. thanks so much for all your help and knowledge.
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freegeo
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godtoh1313
Aug 22 2015, 07:47 AM
removed the distributor set the gap re-installed the distributor and started right up. installed jumper wire to check base timing and found it to be set at 0 so I set it to 5btc and its running great even better than before. found a crack in the vacuum line and replaced it now all is good. thanks so much for all your help and knowledge.
Glad to here you got it straightened out. Thanks for the reply back, that reply can help others that read this later with the same problem.
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Hanuman
"The Almighty Grounds Cleaner"

freegeo
Aug 22 2015, 01:33 AM
godtoh1313
Aug 21 2015, 06:18 AM
1994 metro 1.0 auto: was driving into work the other morning when all of a sudden the engine died. "really thought I snapped a timing belt" but while checking it to see if timing belt was broke I removed the distributor cap to find copper strands all twisted around rotor shaft, changed out the ignition pickup and then started the car but noticed it cranked much longer than normal decided to look at it after getting home and changed spark plugs they were not to bad but a fresh set couldn't hurt. but it was still hard to start. I checked timing with a timing light and its set at 5btc where it should be I thought maybe the copper strands got bound in the distributor and caused it to jump time. it idles just fine once started what could be causing this. the car started perfect before this happened. it also seems to be lacking in power, also seems to use more gas the little bit I have drove it since this problem, checked a vacuum line on the front of throttle body had very little vacuum at idle but increased when I increased throttle. please help. thanks
Quote:
 
checked a vacuum line on the front of throttle body had very little vacuum at idle but increased when I increased throttle.


Which vacuum line did you check? You should attach a vacuum gauge to the map sensor like in the picture below.
Posted Image
FYI there is a vacuum line on early metro (never checked this on later ones) going to the evap system that increases in vacuum as rpm/throttle increases. I observed this while working on a 93 xfi recently.

Let's just say I was scratching my head as to why the engine had 8" vacuum at idle.....then I bliped the throttle
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Hanuman
"The Almighty Grounds Cleaner"

Also, the reason why a improperly spaced pick up coil leads to hard or no starting and poor running is .............
to big of a gap causes weak or no signal pulses from the pick up coil.
The signal is what tells the computer to provide fuel and spark.
Both spark and fuel injection is timed to the movement of the valves and pistons (simple explanation)
With out the pulses from the pick up coil there is no spark and no fuel. If a pulse is missed a fuel injection event won't happen and a spark plug discharge will also be skipped
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