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| put a remote start in a 5 speed 1999; any recommendations?? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 26 2015, 07:27 AM (1,718 Views) | |
| tteerryy | Aug 26 2015, 07:27 AM Post #1 |
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Elite Member
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Hi, I'm sure it's a bit more involved than the other one I did on an automatic tranny van, that was really easy as a matter of fact, but with the clutch start switch and ...has anyone done this successfully and which did you use>> I put a Bulldog product on a 98 dodge can and it is still working perfectly. Thanks in advance for any help on the issues, Terry
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| MR1 Kingsbury | Aug 26 2015, 08:23 AM Post #2 |
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Exp. builder/rebuilder
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I have not installed any remote starts but would really reconsider doing this on a standard shift. It can be way to dangerous to bypass neutral/clutch safety switches, and you would always be wondering if you left it in gear when you push that start button... I know a lot of people don't but I almost always leave my 5 speed in 1st gear when parked. A potentially catastrophic condition with remote start. |
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| Metromightymouse | Aug 26 2015, 08:53 AM Post #3 |
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Powdercoat Wizard
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The alarm I installed on the Mouse has a remote start feature designed to work with a manual. You leave the car running and get out and the system shuts the car off after you lock the doors. That way it knows it's out of gear and safe to start. |
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| Stiffchezze | Aug 26 2015, 09:43 AM Post #4 |
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Sir Metrologist
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![]() Recommendations? Don't do it. It will only take one time when you left it in gear, and you will regret it.
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| myredvert | Aug 26 2015, 09:46 AM Post #5 |
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myredvert
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![]() If the system can't be installed in such a manner that it has the same logic, safety precautions, and fail safe modes that a factory engineered system would have, there's a good chance it's not the best of ideas from a safety perspective. Just thinking out loud here, but is there protection built in that would address a situation where someone unlocked the door, entered the vehicle, inadvertently bumped or even intentionally placed the selector into gear, then exited the car and re-locked the doors? Even if the system disabled itself once any door was opened, it still wouldn't address a situation where a window was left open. ![]() Or did you really just mean to say "it assumes it's out of gear and safe to start..." And, that assumption is only valid provided the car has not been touched or tampered with in any way since I last exited it..." FWIW, when a professional considers the safety aspects of a particular system design, it is never influenced by or based on "what I believe won't happen," rather it is heavily influenced by "what could or might happen..." regardless of our best intentions and efforts. There's a big difference of what we may be capable of doing, and what's necessarily a good idea to do. [edit] Since I now see Stiffchezze beat me to the , I should change that to [/edit] ![]() Edited by myredvert, Aug 26 2015, 09:49 AM.
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| Old Man | Aug 26 2015, 09:57 AM Post #6 |
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Years ago I spent a winter in the oil fields of North Dakota. I put a 1500W space heater in the middle of the back deck (seat down) and plugged it into an extention cord ran into the house. Soon as I got up in the morning I would plug the extention cord in and by the time I left for work the car was toasty warm. By the time it cooled off the car heater was working good.---BTW it was as cold that winter as -30* for a week at a time. |
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| Metromightymouse | Aug 26 2015, 11:30 AM Post #7 |
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Powdercoat Wizard
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From http://cartech.about.com/od/Security/fl/Automatic-Car-Starters-and-Manual-Transmissions.htm Solving the Automatic Car Starter Manual Transmission Problems The simplest issue to take care of is the clutch interlock switch. In order to bypass the need for someone to actually depress the clutch pedal, the automatic car starter has to be wired into the clutch interlock. When you press the start button, the device will then disable the interlock before activating the starter. In a similar process, the device can also be wired to the same parking brake switch that activates the parking brake light on your dash. If that switch isn’t activated, the remote starter will be disabled entirely. The issue of verifying that the transmission is in neutral is more complicated, and there have been a number of “solutions” throughout the years. Most of these so-called solutions were overly complicated and prone to failure, but modern automatic car starters take advantage of a lot of years of trial and error. There are a number of ways to ensure that the vehicle is in neutral, but one of the safest involves a multi-step that essentially makes it impossible to accidentally start the vehicle when it is in gear. This setup involves wiring the remote starter in such a way that when you park your vehicle, you push a button on your remote, shut off the key, and the engine keeps running. You then get out of the vehicle and shut the door. The automatic car starter is also wired to the door switch, which signals it to shut the engine off. Since the engine was running when you took your foot off the brake and got out of the car, it has to be in neutral at that point, which means it will be safe to start later on with the remote. As an added security measure, a system that is set up in this manner will “reset” if the door is opened again prior to activating the remote. That essentially means that if anyone opens the door (and potentially shifts the transmission into gear), the automatic car starter will be deactivated.
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| evmetro | Aug 26 2015, 11:57 AM Post #8 |
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I would have no problem running a remote start on a manual, but I would install a pair of contact switches on the shift linkage that could only complete a safety circuit when neither of the switches is contacting the linkage. The linkage goes for and aft, so one switch would detect forward position, and the other would detect aft position. In neutral, the linkage contact point would be centered between the two switches, and movement in either direction would close a switch and disable the remote starting capabilities. |
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| myredvert | Aug 26 2015, 11:58 AM Post #9 |
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myredvert
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Notwithstanding the fact that this did nothing to address or answer a few simple specific questions I had about your particular system, thank you nonetheless for that opinion written by a journalist/mechanic who appears to lack a background in systems safety and design, after performing what he believes based on his background to be a satisfactory failure mode analysis. A system such as this that determines if the selector actually IS in neutral prior to start is the best solution, and one that does not depend on assumptions or multiple "true-false" conditions being true before starting. Edited by myredvert, Aug 26 2015, 12:00 PM.
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| Metromightymouse | Aug 26 2015, 12:13 PM Post #10 |
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Powdercoat Wizard
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Why do you drive a convertible when things falling from the sky can hit you in the head and kill you? It's not safe in general, and not safe in a rollover. |
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| myredvert | Aug 26 2015, 01:29 PM Post #11 |
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myredvert
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I do not disagree one bit with the implication that the decision to drive a convertible is not the most prudent considering the rollover implications, yet that was not the issue being discussed, was it? Avoid and deflect, avoid and deflect, avoid and deflect... Some people just seem to have very different styles when it comes to the concept of dealing with simple, direct questions as they relate to learning, verifying factual information, and discussing technical issues, that's for sure.
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| Old Man | Aug 26 2015, 01:58 PM Post #12 |
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PMs are made for arguments, even if they are supposed to be subtile |
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| Metromightymouse | Aug 27 2015, 04:16 AM Post #13 |
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Powdercoat Wizard
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We tried that Joe, it ended badly. My final statement to him was that I would stay out of his posts, which I have done for the most part. For some reason he can't do the same and insists on calling me out every time I post something that fails to meet his test pilot standards. |
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| Metromightymouse | Aug 27 2015, 05:40 AM Post #14 |
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Powdercoat Wizard
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The article addressed everything except the facetious argument about "what if" you left the window open and someone came along and shoved it into gear. I don't really feel like it deserves an answer. Since you like that type of question, how can you justify being comfortable with a system that counts on a pair of switches as suggested by EVMetro? Couldn't one or both switches fail and then the car start while in gear? A more logical question is why the engineers that designed a product automatically don't meet your standards? I expect that if their safety systems didn't work we'd be reading about cars crashing and the product would be recalled. Instead there are multiple companies selling the exact same alarm on eBay and Amazon and I'm sure plenty of other places as well. Considering how bad the installation instructions are, I suppose it's possible that none of them were successfully installed, which could be a safety feature all its own. I'm going to ask you nicely, stop trying to pick a fight with me. I am not and will not be ok with you implying that I am too stupid to answer a simple question or that I'm somehow duplicitous and just "avoid and deflect " when a question is too hard for me or whatever it is that you believe. I am well and truly done playing your little "who's smarter" games. Go find another hobby or victim to fill your time, and leave me alone. |
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| evmetro | Aug 27 2015, 09:56 AM Post #15 |
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I love reading drama. Is there anything I can do to stir the pot? |
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[/edit] 
2:13 PM Jul 11