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| Mitsubish Mirage; Not as well built as a Metro | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 14 2015, 09:46 PM (5,522 Views) | |
| Deleted User | Dec 15 2015, 03:14 PM Post #16 |
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Hmm, I'll Stick With My Geo Metro. Reason: NO CAR PAYMENTS, And NO THREAT OF HAVING IT REPOSSESSED! I Have Been Down That Road Before More Than Once And I Have To Say No Thank You To That. You Save Money In The Long Run By Keeping Your Trusty GEO METRO!! Yes, Even An AUTOMATIC GEO METRO!! |
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| nwgeo | Dec 15 2015, 04:10 PM Post #17 |
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On comparing to Hondas, I had a friend yesterday tell me he used to have a older Honda civic that he could drive on the flats in Montana at 85 and still get 50 MPG.... I can't remember what Honda civic model that was that did that well... does that sound right. There was a Honda that did about as well at the metro wasn't there? |
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| scratchpaddy | Dec 15 2015, 04:27 PM Post #18 |
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Not so fast
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1992 Honda Civic VX I was considering a VX before I got my Metro, but they are rare, unmolested examples are almost impossible to find, and prices are way high for their age.
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| starscream5000 | Dec 15 2015, 05:08 PM Post #19 |
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Got 70 MPG?
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My second Geo Metro had a lifetime average MPG of 59.54 before I sold it. The cost per mile worked out to be $0.07. My 2013 Dodge Dart has the exact same cost per mile as that Geo did
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| cwatkin | Dec 15 2015, 06:00 PM Post #20 |
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I did a little research on this myself a while back and had to say I would have decided against the Mirage if I needed to get a new or at least newer car. I am not saying it is a bad car but here is why. 1. Dealer support. Will the company be around in 5 years? My GF has a Suzuki (one of the Daewoo ones) and finding parts or going for a recall can be a huge pain. It is always a 100+ mile trip and a wasted weekday (not open on Sat) so work is always missed. There are very few dealers around here and they are quite a distance away. 2. Rust out. I read a review and they didn't say it was a bad car. They did mention that areas invisible to the eye from the outside are just primered. I doubt the rust proofing is much better than a Metro but correct me if I am wrong. 3. Many better cars for similar or slightly more money. There is the Kia Rio, Kia Forte, Ford Fiesta, Nissan Versa, Mazda 3, and many more in this segment for not much more. Sure, the mileage might not be quite as good but it isn't far off. 4. Again, these other cars have a better dealer network. Locally we have Ford, GM, Kia/Hyundai, and Chrysler/Dodge. Toyota and a repeat of many of those I just listed are within 30 miles too. I would rather not have to spend a whole day getting a car serviced under warranty or a recall. Just a few missed jobs because of this will pay for a slightly better car bought locally and the gas to run it. Plus that distance to get the Mirage serviced also uses gas. 5. I know there is the Dodge Dart and I see a ton of them around here. This might be the best car ever made but I can't get over the fact it is a Chrysler. It looks like from this: http://www.carcomplaints.com/Dodge/Dart/ that is might be a pretty decent car. You have to respect that the issues in the first model year appear to have been corrected on the newer units. Also, the Nissan Versa is like the cheapest car around from what I understand. Anyone here have experience with them? Something I like about all these small cheap cars is the manual transmission. I know most get 1 or so better MPG with the auto/CVT but I like manuals. Here is what I consider a pretty fair review of the car. http://jalopnik.com/2014-mitsubishi-mirage-the-jalopnik-review-1472224538 Lots of others pan this model. Conor |
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| Cobrajet25 | Dec 15 2015, 07:17 PM Post #21 |
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I thought about all of this before I bought mine. Some thoughts: 1) The company president has said UNEQUIVOCALLY on many occasions that Mitsubishi is not leaving the US market. Mitsubishi used to sell 300,000 cars a year in the US. Suzuki and Daewoo abandoned the US market because they never got any real traction here. 2) The car has a 7yr/100k anti-perforation warranty. Mitsubishi isn't too worried about them rusting, and I haven't heard any reports of it happening amongst actual owners...even 'rust belt' owners. While it's true that they omit the color coat on areas that are not visible, these are areas that don't tend to rust anyway. Look at the Metro...it rusts in the frame horns and the rockers, not the unpainted areas like door jambs and under the hood. 3) "Similar money". Most cars are significantly more than the Mirage. When you are talking about the difference between a $12,000 car and a $15,000 car, that difference is +25%. A difference of $3000 may not be much when you are talking about a $47,000 car versus a $50,000 car, but at the bottom of the market such a difference can be significant. For some people, that is the difference between getting financed and not getting financed. While I understand the logic of the 'just spend 35% more and buy a Honda' argument, it's simply not an option for some people. Me? I didn't WANT to spend more. My well-equipped Mirage was a hair over $14,000. A similarly equipped Honda or Hyundai would have been $17,000+. 4) Better dealer network. Yep, can't argue with you there. There are about 400 Mitsubishi dealerships here now...many fewer than most of the competition. Truth be told, my car only went to the dealership for a couple free oil changes and four lug nuts. My girlfriend's has only gone in for a free oil change. I asked the service manager the last time I went in how often he sees Mirages for warranty work. "Almost never" was his reply. While having a dealership a hop and a jump away is nice, there is also something to be said for a car that simply doesn't need to visit the dealer very much. 5) I agree with you about Chrysler. It almost disqualifies a car automatically. But I thought the same about Mitsubishi as well...until I bought the Mirage. I know a guy who just bought a new Dart. So far, so good. 6) The Versa is slightly cheaper, but you get a lot less for what you are paying. Nissan guts that car to sell it for what they sell it for in base "S" trim. Last I heard, the base Versa (which is VERY hard to find, BTW), had a two speaker radio, crank windows, and no AC. Reviews of the Versa are nearly as bad as reviews of the Mirage. You make some fair points. But the Mirage really isn't meant to appeal to everyone. Most Metro fans, however, will really appreciate them.
Edited by Cobrajet25, Dec 15 2015, 07:44 PM.
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| sser2 | Dec 15 2015, 08:47 PM Post #22 |
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sser2
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Speaking of Civic VX, the later re-incarnation of it was the first generation Insight hybrid. I bought a 2000 5-speed Insight for 1,700 and I love it. It has a 1 liter 3 cylinder VTEC engine that has the lean burn feature. The gearing is 2,000 rpm at 60 mph in the fifth. On a flat highway at 60 mph, the car can top 100 mpg! Its longevity is phenomenal. 100K miles is like break-in. |
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| Car Nut | Dec 15 2015, 09:30 PM Post #23 |
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I must say that I thought the Mirage was butt ugly when I first saw one. After Cobrajet's writeups about his, I decided to check them out. I was impressed. Plenty of room, lots of nice options included in the price, great gas mileage, 10 yr, 100k powertrain warranty. In fact, I've just about talked myself into one, but waiting on the newer model. I'll likely be selling my 91 XFI, another Metro, and one of my Civic VX's to help finance it's purchase. The boss has also said no more until something leaves. She should be happy with a 3 for 1 trade. My two VX's are totally unmolested, and one was purchased from the original owner. I usually get 48 to 52 mpg bone stock, no aero mods or anything. They are becoming not as fun to drive anymore since they sit so low, & bad knees, etc. I usually take my 99 Metro most places now as it's easier getting in & out of. Getting old's a b....
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| Car Nut | Dec 15 2015, 09:37 PM Post #24 |
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How in the world did you find one for $1700?????? Was it totaled? I saw one for $2500 on CL & it was gone in a couple hours. Oh, don't forget the Civic HX. Another high mpg model shortly after the VX was discontinued. Edited by Car Nut, Dec 15 2015, 09:39 PM.
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| sser2 | Dec 15 2015, 10:01 PM Post #25 |
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sser2
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I bought in on eBay. The car was donated to a charity by a lady from Hollywood, and sold as-is, untested. There were 36 bids including mine. 134K miles. The car was dirty inside, and front bumper was slightly detached on the passenger side. Otherwise, the condition was amazingly good. New hybrid battery was installed in 2011, and all three control units were the latest upgrades. RE92 tires with half-life left. Replacing spark plugs, re-conditioning injectors, and cleaning the EGR system brought the engine to top shape. The only real problem was grabbing clutch, which made the car jerk and stall at start. I guess this was the reason why the previous owner decided to get rid of it. A $200 Sachs clutch kit and a weekend of work solved this problem. Edited by sser2, Dec 15 2015, 10:12 PM.
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| cwatkin | Dec 15 2015, 10:57 PM Post #26 |
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So the Mirages owned here have been pretty trouble free? I never thought much of Mitsubishi like I feel about Chrysler. It is good to hear they are a "change the fluids and go" type of car. Mitsubishis as a whole didn't used to be that way. I am not expert on the finances of Mitsubishi and how many cars they sell in this country. They may say they want to stay in the US market but if the financial situation doesn't allow it, then they might leave. Anyone know how they rank here right now and any growth numbers? What other cars are being sold here and how do they rate? The MSRP on the Kia Rio is $13,999. See http://www.kia.com/us/en/vehicle/rio/2015 I know they clear these things out at the end of the year and they go for WAY less than that. I have to say no one here is down talking the car in terms of reliability. That would have been my biggest concern. I still might consider this when/if the Metros become impossible to keep going. Maybe there will be some good used ones around by then. It looks like it is a solid car in the low-end price range and very fuel efficient too. The reports of problems look pretty low. Mitsubishi must have improved as a whole. http://www.carcomplaints.com/Mitsubishi/Mirage/ I will probably consider this sometime in the future as I do lots of driving and want a small efficient car. I would hope I wouldn't need warranty work or recall service as the nearest dealers are pretty far away. I also definitely won't rule out the Kia Rio and other small cars that can be found and serviced locally. Also, getting cars like this used might be a good option. Cheap cars new often depreciate WAY faster than more expensive models so buying one used makes sense. Conor |
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| cwatkin | Dec 15 2015, 10:59 PM Post #27 |
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The guy who runs the athletic facility here used to have one of those Civics that got 60 mpg. He loved it. The problem was that where he used to work got a lot of rain. When he came out to go home his car was sitting at the bottom of a lake that was the parking lot when he arrived. Needless to say the flooded car was totaled. He was pissed and always talks about missing that car. Conor |
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| Cobrajet25 | Dec 15 2015, 11:25 PM Post #28 |
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Before I bought my Mirage, I searched the ENTIRE WORLD for people who were having significant problems with them, since the car had been introduced for the 2012 model year in other markets. I had read that Mitsubishi had changed nearly nothing when they brought the car to the States, so I figured that looking at other markets where the car was already established would be a good yardstick for reliability. I found absolutely nothing, and that has proven to be the case with nearly all other people who own these cars that I have talked to. Sure, they are a cheap and simple car. But if done right cheap and simple can equal reliable. Mitsubishi's American auto sales division is a tiny, tiny part of their overall bottom line. This company sells millions of cars and heavy trucks elsewhere, in addition to making nearly every other product under the sun. They are a massive global multinational corporation. They don't really NEED to sell a lot of cars in the US. If they say they are staying, I believe them. The US market is the largest and most lucrative auto market in the world...and you don't just walk away from it because you have a few bad years. Once you walk away, you can't really come back (unless you are Fiat, I guess). Were they to walk away, I think they would have done it a few years ago when their sales were really down. Mitsu has experienced a sharp UPTURN in sales over the last couple years, and are going to introduce a Mirage sedan (the G4) and a PHEV version of the new Outlander later this year. You don't introduce new models if you are leaving. My car has 28k, and I haven't had a problem with it. Someone on the Mirage forum had to have a CVT replaced, and somebody else in the Great White North had to have an engine replaced because the relays Mitsu put in the car wouldn't take the cold. The car would crank and crank and crank without starting, and in those temps this scored the cylinder walls. Mitsubishi replaced the motor with no fuss. There are other isolated problems people have had, but nothing so far that could be called a major design flaw. The one common problem with these cars is one shared with many new lower-end cars, and that is an unadjustable rear end that is out of alignment from the factory. A number of new Mirages have rear wheels that are toed-in, but we really don't know if it is a factory defect or if it was done when they were tied down during shipping. My sister wanted a Rio about ten years ago, and I went with her to test drive one. Truly terrible, and the Mirage feels like a Rolls Royce by comparison. I am sure they are a much better car now. But I have to say I am not impressed with the 27 mpg and lack of things like power windows and keyless entry on the base cars. To get push-button ignition on a Rio, like my Mirage has, I have to spend $18,000! Mirages are also blown out at the end of the year, and brand new ones can be found for under $12k at the moment. For me, these cars are so cheap new that I really don't see the point of buying a used one! But they should be quite cheap on the used market in a few years. Edited by Cobrajet25, Dec 15 2015, 11:45 PM.
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| cwatkin | Dec 16 2015, 12:39 AM Post #29 |
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Nice! This is definitely a viable option. I like cheap and simple. The Metro is quite this way and it takes care of you if you take care of it. Lots of the common issues we see with these cars on this forum are related to owner neglect like not changing the oil. Our cars might not be as forgiving as some or the people let them go 30,000 miles before changing the oil. I mean some of the pictures I see here where everything under the valve cover looks like tar say it all. I owned one of these tar pit engines for a time and besides being an oil burning maniac, it got great mileage and had plenty of power, all while fogging for mosquitoes! The little engines run and run without valve burning issues and the like if you just take care of them! The above is one reason NOT to buy a used Mirage unless you know it was taken care of. Cheaper cars unfortunately tend to be more neglected and that is why depreciation is more. Typically some basic inspections like looking in the oil fill cap tell a lot about how a car has been cared for. Can you see inside the valve cover or are there baffles on the Mitsubishi engines? That is good that sales are going up and that new models are being introduced. You have obviously done a lot more research than I have as I was totally unaware. I know they are a huge industrial powerhouse like Toshiba, Hyundai, and many others but were unaware of their auto business in the US. Hopefully their issues are behind them and all their products will be of good quality. Do you know of any known issues that are a trend with these cars? Lets say something simple like a sensor that fails? If nothing at all, then great. The carcomplaints report doesn't appear to show anything major. I personally like that most cars in this segment offer a manual. I don't care about the reliability of the CVT as I wouldn't get it, even though the mileage is a tad better. A manual is more fun, likely more reliable, and it will take a lot of gas saving of only a small amount to pay for that $1400 or so premium. I know that some of the Kias and Hyundais of the past were junk but I understand they have come a long way. I have friends who have them who would have never considered them 10 years ago. It would be interesting to see how you feel about a current Rio as the reviews for ride quality, etc. are quite favorable. I don't know and won't worry about this unless I have an opportunity to drive one from someone I know. I hate car dealers and the Kia place in my town is shady. I would rather not even set foot there. One of my friends drove 100 miles to buy her Forte at another dealer, rather than the one within walking distance. How about the Chevy Sonic? Anyone here messed with one of these? They are in the similar price range. Are they Daewoo-influenced like the Aveo? I know that GM basically absorbed Daewoo. My GF has a Suzuki Reno (Daewoo) and it isn't a horrible car but I am always fixing some little quirky thing with it. There is still a long list to go when she has the money. The goal right now is to keep it driving without a check engine light. Something is always up and there were random codes for a while that I think were related to her bad battery cables, now fixed. Anyway, I will definitely make a point to drive 100 miles one way or the other to test drive one of these little cars. It is good to hear from someone who owns one and has done the research already to see how it holds up over the long haul. I thought that review I posted the link to was at least written with an open mind. You have to imagine what he probably thought at first since it sounds like he drives a lot of high end cars. His description makes me think it has the "go kart" handling that I find fun about the Metro. I know the time will come with the Metros will become harder and harder to find parts for. Both mine are broken right now. The blue 1992 is a simple issue and will be back together tomorrow if my schedule and the weather cooperate. Filling up a truck, even one that gets 25mg, is a shock after driving the Metros so much! Conor |
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| mt999999 | Dec 16 2015, 02:29 AM Post #30 |
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Self-Declared "Genious"
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Call me crazy, but I will go against the grain here. I absolutely loved the way the 4 door versa looks, especially the charcoal blue one. I truly think the Mirage is really ugly. I test-drove the basic Versa-S, and I really liked it. ALL models come stock with A/C and bluetooth. While the bluetooth would have been a feature to many, it was the only thing that truly annoyed me. I can't stand advanced things and technology. My car wouldn't interact very well with my 2G 2001 Nokia 3395 cell phone anyway. I really like the fact that they offer dirt-basic models with roll-up windows. The 2-speaker system sounded great, and you can easily add more speakers in the back. I'm almost certain the wiring is there. The 5-speed was fun to drive, and it was INCREDIBLY roomy inside, including the back seat! |
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