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Toyota kills off Scion brand.; 2002-2016, RIP!
Topic Started: Feb 4 2016, 06:24 AM (1,931 Views)
Freeman
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The Family Man

I never realized that neither Toyota nor Subaru owns the other, it is some weird partnership. I thought it was like Dodge and Chrysler.

Moving on. The FRS and BRZ are fun cars. Definitely a young man's car from what I have heard. 14s also is pretty quick. I've had a 14 second car, then a 13 second car, then a car that never made a full pass. 13/14 is quick on the street.
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Coche Blanco
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MarkZ28
Feb 4 2016, 01:20 PM
I had a bone stock 90 LX with a 5.0 and a 5 speed. It was a high 13 sec car. Had less than 20k on it so still fresh then. Had a 98 Z28 1LE that ran low to mid 13's bone stock and still got 30 mpg. It was a 6 speed and the 1LE was the handling option and light weight also. It wouldbt keep uo in tight corners like a Miata or FRS but could beat the FRS otherwise for less money new. Dobt get me wrong, I love the FRS but it was overhyped and ended up short of power that was expected. Hopefully Subaru will fix that soon with a STi version.
You've missed the point.
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MarkZ28


A 14 sec car is a normal everyday sedan today. No big deal, probably every V6 piwered and up daily driver car sold can do that. FRZ should be quicker for what you pay for. Thats the point, a 20 yo or older Fox body Mustang did that and better for not much money in mods, some were free. A modern spirts car should be quicker, not talking 10 seconds, but at least quicker than a antiquated Ford that weighs twice as much.
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banginmetro64
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MarkZ28
Feb 4 2016, 05:05 PM
A 14 sec car is a normal everyday sedan today. No big deal, probably every V6 piwered and up daily driver car sold can do that. FRZ should be quicker for what you pay for. Thats the point, a 20 yo or older Fox body Mustang did that and better for not much money in mods, some were free. A modern spirts car should be quicker, not talking 10 seconds, but at least quicker than a antiquated Ford that weighs twice as much.
and you have still missed the point. in your eyes the frs/brz was to be a 1/4 mile car which is was not. you will never understand that though. go and drive one on the track and zip around town and you will understand. until then just stop.
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sser2
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TurboEF
Feb 4 2016, 09:13 AM
Thank God Scion is gone. I am a pretty big Toyota fan and I'm excited to see a 'true' Toyota 86 come to the states! Hopefully we get the Limited Yellow Edition some time too. I mean, it is doubtful since Japan always gets the SiR, CTR and Integra Type R models that we don't get.

Posted Image

It looks like a budget Supra to me, which is definitely something that brings out my inner fanboy. I do think it will be better for the company. Consolidation isn't always a terrible idea. Well, unless you get rid of the Supra for the Celica. Fools! :D
What is the handle-like thing on the rear of the car? Is it a trunk handle?
Why tires are so thin?
Is it painted bright yellow to warn other drivers of the danger this car presents?
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MarkZ28


How many poeple that buy it go to track days? More than a Camry but a vast majority wint take it to a track where it wouldnt need a lot of power to be fun. Street driving is more like drag racing, taking off from a stop or passing someone. I get your point in that its a great car for tight road courses and scca type racing like tge Miata. You dont want a overpowered car for that. But, my point is thst tge average person that buys cars dont care about corner carving or autocrossing. They want a car that moves them out faster from a stop and can pass easier. I understand that the car was never designed to be a straight line car but its perceived slowness is whats keeping a lot of buyers away, plus its nit a cheap to buy car. Giving it a little better off the line power would help. Thats what poeple expected, right or wrong.
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z34-5speed
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MarkZ28
Feb 4 2016, 05:44 PM
How many poeple that buy it go to track days? More than a Camry but a vast majority wint take it to a track where it wouldnt need a lot of power to be fun. Street driving is more like drag racing, taking off from a stop or passing someone. I get your point in that its a great car for tight road courses and scca type racing like tge Miata. You dont want a overpowered car for that. But, my point is thst tge average person that buys cars dont care about corner carving or autocrossing. They want a car that moves them out faster from a stop and can pass easier. I understand that the car was never designed to be a straight line car but its perceived slowness is whats keeping a lot of buyers away, plus its nit a cheap to buy car. Giving it a little better off the line power would help. Thats what poeple expected, right or wrong.
It is significantly cheaper than a 98 bare bones Z28 ($21k or so in 1998 money). An FR-S can be had new for ~$24k.

You're still trying to compare it to a car that it isn't supposed to be compared to. Compare it to a Miata, then complain about its "lack of power", never mind the fact that it's fastee than any Miata produced up till the current ND, which runs a 14.5.

Why not compare the Metro to a Miata while you're at it?
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z34-5speed
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Also, I still stand by my statement on Mustangs:

Find me a Factory (non SVT) Mustang from 94-04 That runs faster than a mid 14.
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MarkZ28


The 94 to 04 were slower due to extra weight and the switch to the 4.6 didnt help. The 94 and 95 Cobra werent even fast other than the Cobra R.
I have to go drive a FRS to see how it compares to a Miata, onky drove a 00 and an 06. Had an 03 S2K, it would kill both.
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z34-5speed
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MarkZ28
Feb 4 2016, 08:55 PM
The 94 to 04 were slower due to extra weight and the switch to the 4.6 didnt help. The 94 and 95 Cobra werent even fast other than the Cobra R.
I have to go drive a FRS to see how it compares to a Miata, onky drove a 00 and an 06. Had an 03 S2K, it would kill both.
S2ks were low 14 cars, some tickled 13s.

13.999 isn't worlds faster than a 14.6. Is/was the S2k woefully underpowered??? I think not.
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Cobrajet25
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MarkZ28
Feb 4 2016, 05:05 PM
A 14 sec car is a normal everyday sedan today. No big deal, probably every V6 powered and up daily driver car sold can do that.
:gp This.

A V6 Toyota Camry has 268 horsepower, will do 0-60 in 5.8 seconds, and will do a quarter mile in 14.2 seconds at 101 mph.

If a Camry sedan is whuppin' your sports car's ass at the track, your sports car isn't fast enough. :lol
Edited by Cobrajet25, Feb 5 2016, 12:35 AM.
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Freeman
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The Family Man

A Camry has nearly 270 HP? DANG! My Civic ran 12s with that kind of power.

Anyway. Here's the issue. The FRS is amazing at doing tiny circles and weaving around. It was never meant to be a drag monster. I bet it is still faster than a bunch of new cars around the intended track. Probably faster than most of the new Mustangs (Boss, GT, etc included). It wasn't meant to be a straight line monster or a dyno queen.

PS. The Camry is $8,000 more than the FRS. You could buy my entire Civic for less than that and run faster than both of these cars in a straight line.
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Metromightymouse
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And still the point is missed. You buy a car like this for the smile it puts on your face. Some people get all wrapped up in HP and 1/4 mile times and stoplight to stoplight wins, that's fine if that's what floats your boat. It is a very American view. It isn't, however why people still buy Miatas. If you listen to the typical American opinion of the Miata, you hear about how it's a girly car or for old farts to drive with the top down after they retire. That isn't how they were marketed, or how they won their reputation. They won their reputation by consistently torching much more powerful cars, for much less money, on world class racetracks. When race drivers and respected automotive critics test a car at the same time as super cars and can't stop talking about how much fun it is to drive, I for one take notice. Straight line acceleration is only on aspect of driving, and one that is more likely to result in tickets, which don't make me smile. When I can tear down an on ramp, flat out like I'm on rails, I smile. My Hyundai Scoupe would take the 90 degree turn onto our street without even squealing the tires, at speeds that would have a lot of cars sliding and hitting the curb.

It's like hiring The Rock to be your bouncer instead of Bruce Lee. They will both get the job done, but one is way more likely to result in complaints about being man handled. The other results in them not even knowing what happened. It's all about how you want to get to the result.
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Metromightymouse
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Oh, and that Camry? How many smiles do you think it generates as it gets driven to work... to get the kids... to soccer practice... etc?
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Cobrajet25
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Metromightymouse
Feb 5 2016, 07:40 AM
Oh, and that Camry? How many smiles do you think it generates as it gets driven to work... to get the kids... to soccer practice... etc?
"Smiles"? Really? That is the reason it's okay for this car to be slower than a Camry? That's why you are asserting we are all obtuse? Maybe your point isn't as strong as you think it is. Hell, a Model T can make you smile.

Many cars that can make you smile have been rightly panned for being too slow and failing to quite live up to their mission. Here is a famous one...

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Edited by Cobrajet25, Feb 5 2016, 08:11 AM.
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