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Lower Control Arms; Integrity safety stability
Topic Started: Feb 22 2016, 08:14 PM (1,943 Views)
jbridgway
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I checked all over the internet fount nothing showing exactly what was done to my car. The mechanic said that while removing the old lower control arms that he broke off a bolt on each side inside the frame. His solution was to spot weld the lower control arm where the bolt was broken to the frame. The good news is that the car was pretty much repaired correctly and rust free on the frame where the control arm connects. This sound normal to you? Is it safe?

Learned a valuable lesson today and an expensive one. Hire the right people for repairs. I gave a mechanic all the handle and outside lock assemblies and was returned a vehicle with the new parts in some cases broken or doors opening no different then before. Very frustrating.
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solerpower
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No this is not okay. The two bolt that go into the frame horn from the rear mount of the front control arm need to be attached. This is a common occurrence on Metros. If the frame horn is solid which I have my concerns and doubts the solution is to drill out the bolt. I had to buy a Rigid cryo-treatment drill bit to do the trick with a nice plug in drill. It to 30 minutes of slow churning away of the bolt to get it out. If your lucky when you take off the other bolt and remove the rear mount that you will have enough stub of a bolt to weld onto. You will want to weld a nut to the stub and heat the frame horn with an acetylene. torch. You then use the welded on nut to remove the bolt and replace the bolt. You will definitely want to tap the hole after the bolt is out, and use anti-seize compound on the new thread.

This is the rear mount for the control arm.

Posted Image

I would bring it back to him and make him fix it. Welding the rear control arm onto the nub is not acceptable and is a huge safety concern.
Edited by solerpower, Feb 22 2016, 08:58 PM.
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jbridgway
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I think the only reason he told me was because I was standing right there watching him do the work. The part you show in your picture wasn't the part I saw him working on that it looked like a "U" shaped bracket.
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pdqrunner


Not the best way to fix a broken bolt on that mount. I would be concerned it was not properly tightened. You may want to drill the broken bolt out and if you lucky re tap to the original or slightly larger size. The car should be safe to drive... but be cautious.
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jbridgway
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geo metro lower control arm assembly
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jbridgway
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On the link above the part is number 6 in the diagram, one bolt is bolted the other he spot welded
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geogonfa
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Just my .02...should have drilled the bolt out, taped the threads out, and installed a new bolt...just think welding wasn't the wisest choice... :type
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1DCGUY
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Don't be a "Richard"

geogonfa
Feb 22 2016, 11:17 PM
Just my .02...should have drilled the bolt out, taped the threads out, and installed a new bolt...just think welding wasn't the wisest choice... :type
I fully agree with that statement!! :thumb
I've broken these bolts myself, and have opened up the floorboards from the inside to get at the welded nut from the top side. It's not the prettiest thing I have ever done, but at least I have the option to replace the lower control arm in the future without grinding off a spot weld.

For all of you reading this, I will add this: If you are going to replace the lower control arms, buy the Dorman control arms that have the removable lower ball joint, so you never have to remove these bolts again. I live in the rust belt, and have learned that it is much easier to replace the lower ball joint without removing the entire lower control arm. B-)
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frostbyte
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I have a similar issue. I am doing lower control arms and axles. The 2 12mm bolts that hold the front lower control arm to the frame horn 1 came out the other was rusted. I bought new bolts. the front one went in the back one does not grab any threads. Nut inside the frame horn is gone. maybe fell inside or just beyond being able to grab threads.
It is completely boxed in How would I get inside to back the bolt up with a nut?
I do not have excess to metal working tools and the Car is inop. till I resolve this.
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mt999999
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Self-Declared "Genious"

frostbyte
Feb 23 2016, 12:29 AM
I have a similar issue. I am doing lower control arms and axles. The 2 12mm bolts that hold the front lower control arm to the frame horn 1 came out the other was rusted. I bought new bolts. the front one went in the back one does not grab any threads. Nut inside the frame horn is gone. maybe fell inside or just beyond being able to grab threads.
It is completely boxed in How would I get inside to back the bolt up with a nut?
I do not have excess to metal working tools and the Car is inop. till I resolve this.
Good question for 1DCGuy... I remember reading one of his project threads where he tore into it from the inside of the car, but I can't remember where to go to link you to that thread.
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solerpower
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I have cut a square access hole in between the two bolt. You then reach in and place a nut welded all the way around to a 1/8" piece of plate metal. The plate will have to be cut to exact size (roughly 1" x 2", with nut welded to the middle with whole drilled and tapped in the plate before welding). You then can drill a small hole on either side of the nut through the frame and spot weld. I would then go back in and fill the entire cavity on both sides with braze. You will first want to vacuum out the cavity for loose rust. I would finalize the project by spraying Eastman's rust encapsulator all around on the inside. I would then take the piece that you carefully cut out and fit it back in the hole. The idea here is that the plate you welded should overlap the edge on the inside so you are welding to the thicker 1/8" plate on the one side. If you did both sides you could have an overlap on both sides and then just have the side middle welds to fill that don't have substantial backing.

This is talking about the bolts for #1 on post #5
Edited by solerpower, Feb 23 2016, 08:32 AM.
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1DCGUY
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Don't be a "Richard"

frostbyte
Feb 23 2016, 12:29 AM
I have a similar issue. I am doing lower control arms and axles. The 2 12mm bolts that hold the front lower control arm to the frame horn 1 came out the other was rusted. I bought new bolts. the front one went in the back one does not grab any threads. Nut inside the frame horn is gone. maybe fell inside or just beyond being able to grab threads.
It is completely boxed in How would I get inside to back the bolt up with a nut?
I do not have excess to metal working tools and the Car is inop. till I resolve this.
Can you confirm that you are talking about the bolts that are used to hold number 6 in the link in post #5 ??
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frostbyte
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No, Post #5 - Bolts #2. holding mount #1 Bolt is 12mm. wrench is a 16mm I believe.
Dam it was afraid you where going to tell me that. thought maybe I was missing something. Like going in thru the Floor.
Edited by frostbyte, Feb 23 2016, 09:22 AM.
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1DCGUY
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Don't be a "Richard"

frostbyte
Feb 23 2016, 08:59 AM
No, Post #5 - Bolts #2. holding mount #1 Bolt is 12mm. wrench is a 16mm I believe.
Dam it was afraid you where going to tell me that. thought maybe I was missing something. Like going in thru the Floor.
Wowzers, those bolts do not need to be removed to replace the control arms. :smackface
The bolts you are talking about are virtually impossible to fix unless you open up the frame horn itself. :O
The only thing that needs to come off on that piece is part #13 and the washers.
I'm afraid your mechanic screwed you on this one. :die
I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but your mechanic had no idea what he was doing.
Your only saving grace, is that you can weld that piece on, and never have to remove it again to replace the control arm.
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1DCGUY
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Don't be a "Richard"

:smackface
Looks like I mixed up 2 different posters!!
Damn it sucks to get old!!


To the original poster, which bolts did the mechanic break off, by using the link in post #5 ???
Edited by 1DCGUY, Feb 23 2016, 02:05 PM.
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