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| Chips in new car keys for anti-theft | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 4 2016, 09:39 PM (1,754 Views) | |
| cwatkin | Apr 4 2016, 09:39 PM Post #1 |
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I am curious as to how modern car keys are made these days. It seems that the new 2015 Mitsubishi Mirage has a special key you need to get from the dealer. Since I am the outdoorsy type, I am pretty hard on my stuff. I can see getting caught in a downpour with my car keys. I know the ones with the keyless entry in the heads are expensive to replace so I had a key made from a blank for $2, figuring this will be the only key I carry with me when I am outdoors and leave the others hidden somewhere safe. The guy at the hardware store told me right off that this key will open the doors but probably not start the car. I said that is fine as I really just need to get into the car and don't want to ruin the electronics in the other key if they get wet, etc. Yep, he was 100% correct. I can get into the car with the spare key but it will either crank and not start or start for a second and then die. Apparently there is a chip of some sort in the factory keys that communicates with the car. There is only one keyhole on the driver side door for the entire car so obviously this is just a backup for getting in. What happens if the battery in the key head dies? Will the car not start? I know some chips require power while many door access systems at buildings do not. The signal sent from the door energizes the device just long enough to let you inside the building. This is a cheaper car so cannot imaging it being a very complicated system compared to some on higher end cars. Even the "deluxe" model of this car has a push button starter that only works when a fob is within a certain distance. There is no mechanical component to the system. How common is this in new cars to have a chip in addition to a mechanical key? Conor |
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| cwatkin | Apr 4 2016, 09:41 PM Post #2 |
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Also, the car started funny the first time around when I used the factory key after trying the $2 copy. There was a delay and I had to crank the car over longer before it started for first time around. The rest of the starts today were normal. Conor |
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| Silver2K | Apr 4 2016, 11:31 PM Post #3 |
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I think the chip in the key is an anti theft requirement for all new cars. The chip is passive, like a RFID chip. It derives its power from the car through RF coupling. The chip should be very rugged. I doubt it would die from getting wet. My sister's 2010 Camry has the same feature & I wonder what would happen if the engine computer lost connection with the key while the car was running. Of course it would be dangerous for the computer to deactivate the car (think of a car stalled on RR tracks). So my guess is once the car starts, the computer no longer queries the key. A fob has a battery. |
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| JellyBeanDriver | Apr 4 2016, 11:35 PM Post #4 |
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There is no battery in the oem key. It's an RFID transponder in there - pickup coil and chip to communicate a code back when given a challenge request, or the dumber ones just transmit a code when energized by RF energy. I've read some people do what you've done - keep a regular cut key in their wallet in case they lock the transponder key in the car. Others have taped the head of the transponder key near the ignition switch and only use the plain cut key but then defeats hotwiring the car and taking off in it. Our PT Cruiser has them. On the PT if you have two transponder keys you can add more (up to I think 8). However if you only have one transponder key, only the dealer can add another to the tune of a $69+ fee. Might be the same with the Mitsu. I bought aftermarket Chrysler keys and had them cut at a locksmith then did the pairing so I'd still have 2 transponder keys if I lost one. |
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| Cobrajet25 | Apr 5 2016, 12:17 AM Post #5 |
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The nice thing about these keys is that the electronic portion is self-contained inside the key head. So if you ever break a key (like my girlfriend did) you can just pop the electronic portion out and put it into a new OEM key shell, which is about $11. Then just have the actual key portion cut like any regular key. Try it! Pop the key head apart and the entire electronic portion will just drop out into your hand. I believe the key head for the Mirage does have a battery inside to operate the keyless entry. I know the proximity key for my ES does. |
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| Stubby79 | Apr 5 2016, 12:20 AM Post #6 |
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Been around(and a problem) in GM cars since the 90s. Not sure about other brands. You'd find it in anything above an econobox back then, now it's probably in everything. |
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| Old Man | Apr 5 2016, 02:22 AM Post #7 |
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My 01 Ranger has one. My 07 Focus has one. Must be quite common. Also, I would not worry about getting them wet in the weather. Wife washed her Focus key in the washing machine about 3 years ago......it's still working. |
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| Woodie | Apr 5 2016, 05:23 AM Post #8 |
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It's almost unheard of for any car to have a plain old key anymore. |
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| cwatkin | Apr 5 2016, 10:18 AM Post #9 |
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I figured this was the case. I am sure the passive chip would survive pretty much anything which is my main concern. The keyless entry portion might get destroyed but the rest would still work. I am just curious but how easy would it be to duplicate/pair another electronic key to the car? Can you get the chip keys as blanks? Conor |
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| Silver2K | Apr 5 2016, 10:39 AM Post #10 |
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To add another key you have to ask the dealer to program the new key ID into the car computer, which will cost. I have read some locksmiths are authorized to do this for you. The idea of a programmable, blank key is interesting & doable. Not sure if they are available. It may not be cost effective from a car manufacturer point of view. They make more money by forcing you to update the computer. |
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| mt999999 | Apr 5 2016, 10:51 AM Post #11 |
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Self-Declared "Genious"
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The new base Nissan Versa does not have a chip-key, only a plain all-metal key like our Metros. However, it doesn't have remote-unlock either. The Mirage key with the remote unlock built into the actual key is super-annoying, they could at least make them two separate pieces. Myself, I'd much rather have the regular key. As if anyone today is smart enough to hot-wire a car, none-the-less a complicated new car. Who would want to steal the cheapest base model with a 5-speed? Heck, who would be able to drive it... ![]() Edit: The 2015 Versa that I test drove had a plain key. I can't speak for the newer models. Edited by mt999999, Apr 5 2016, 10:52 AM.
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| JellyBeanDriver | Apr 5 2016, 11:17 PM Post #12 |
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read post 4. For details on your own car, do some googling and see what it takes to program a new key - if it can be done by the owner or not. Also I've seen that ACE and Walmart sells transponder keys that they program to match your original. Pricey though. Edited by JellyBeanDriver, Apr 5 2016, 11:17 PM.
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| nerys | Apr 6 2016, 01:45 AM Post #13 |
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Grr
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yep. first thing I did on my quest was to remove the little "chip" inside the key and embed it into teh dash panel in the right spot around the key insertion point so it can read it. now i just cut any normal key with no programmed chip and they work. |
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| cwatkin | Apr 6 2016, 11:13 AM Post #14 |
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I might research this a little more on the Mirage forum. It is just that this is the first for me as everything else I have is older. Conor |
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| ZXTjato | Apr 6 2016, 03:48 PM Post #15 |
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bass heads
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yep, moms new 4 runner does not even have a "key" just a fob that needs to be close, push ignition and away you go. |
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