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Meet the Metro of today; Suzuki Cultus Euro II
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Topic Started: Apr 10 2016, 08:49 PM (1,029 Views)
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mt999999
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Apr 12 2016, 09:36 AM
Post #16
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- Woodie
- Apr 12 2016, 04:36 AM
- sser2
- Apr 11 2016, 10:53 PM
No airbags, even as an option, is a serious safety handicap.
No airbags would be a sales feature to me. I have to agree with you on this one. Airbags scare me, especially in older and older style cars. It's a good way to burn the skin off of your arms! The SIR light sometimes flashes in my new convertible, and that is highly disconcerting. I hate to disable factory features, but I am tempted to find a way to bypass the airbag, especially if it might have issues!
Edited by mt999999, Apr 12 2016, 09:36 AM.
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sser2
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Apr 12 2016, 05:14 PM
Post #17
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sser2
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Agree.
Airbag provides little protection in addition to lap/shoulder belt: Air bag protection It may be outright dangerous to smaller size vehicle occupants, particularly children.
What I meant by "serious safety handicap" was the NHTSA position: US regulators will not allow vehicles without air bags.
I also like simple things in a car like hand crank windows, manually adjustable mirrors and seats, and headlights that you can turn on and off as you wish. The more useless gadgets, the more possibility of their breakdown, and costlier the repairs.
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MarkZ28
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Apr 12 2016, 05:55 PM
Post #18
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Its easy to disable the air bags. Unhook the battery for 15 minutes or longer, unplug sensor under top radiator support, remove fuse, or unplug airbag midule under radio. You will have the srs light on permanently though, unless you remove the bulb behind the warning light spot.
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Hanuman
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Apr 13 2016, 12:46 AM
Post #19
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"The Almighty Grounds Cleaner"
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- MarkZ28
- Apr 12 2016, 05:55 PM
Its easy to disable the air bags. Unhook the battery for 15 minutes or longer, unplug sensor under top radiator support, remove fuse, or unplug airbag midule under radio. You will have the srs light on permanently though, unless you remove the bulb behind the warning light spot. Air bag back up power is unusualy 10 minutes. (10 on a metro) Remove srs fuse. Done.....it's disabled.
Or you can unplug a given airbag connector to allow one to operate and one not to.
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mt999999
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Apr 13 2016, 08:40 AM
Post #20
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- sser2
- Apr 12 2016, 05:14 PM
Agree. Airbag provides little protection in addition to lap/shoulder belt: Air bag protectionIt may be outright dangerous to smaller size vehicle occupants, particularly children. What I meant by "serious safety handicap" was the NHTSA position: US regulators will not allow vehicles without air bags. I also like simple things in a car like hand crank windows, manually adjustable mirrors and seats, and headlights that you can turn on and off as you wish. The more useless gadgets, the more possibility of their breakdown, and costlier the repairs.
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scratchpaddy
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Apr 13 2016, 09:50 AM
Post #21
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Not so fast
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- sser2
- Apr 12 2016, 05:14 PM
Agree. Airbag provides little protection in addition to lap/shoulder belt: Air bag protectionIt may be outright dangerous to smaller size vehicle occupants, particularly children. Wow, that article is old. That's like pulling a news clipping from 1907 and saying, "look here, it says cars aren't that great. I'm sticking to my horse. "
Back in 1997, everybody was still using single-stage airbags that deployed with extreme force no matter who or what was in front of them. Things have improved tremendously since then. This is from the IIHS website:
- Quote:
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Occasionally, the energy required to quickly inflate airbags can cause injury to people sitting or thrown too close to the airbag before it deploys. This was a serious concern with the first generations of frontal airbags, which deployed with greater force. NHTSA estimates that during 1990-2008, more than 290 deaths were caused by frontal airbag inflation in low-speed crashes. 1 Nearly 90 percent of the deaths occurred in vehicles manufactured before 1998, and more than 80 percent of people killed were unbelted or improperly restrained. Most of the deaths were passengers, and more than 90 percent of those were children and infants, most of whom were unbelted or in rear-facing child safety seats that placed their heads close to the deploying airbag. Short and elderly drivers, who tend to sit close to the steering wheel, also were vulnerable to inflation injuries from frontal airbags. However, thanks to advanced airbag government requirements, serious airbag injuries are becoming a thing of the past.
In 1997, the federal government modified safety rules to encourage automakers to take energy out of frontal airbags. Depowering began with 1998 models. [...] Institute researchers found an overall reduction in fatal crash risk associated with newer depowered airbags compared with earlier designs. 2 A 2006 NHTSA study reported that redesigned airbags reduced fatality risk to child passengers by 45 percent, compared with pre-1998 airbags — without reducing the benefits for adults. 3
So, yes, the airbags in our Metros aren't all that effective, and they're dangerous to kids not wearing seatbelts. But it's not fair to use statistics from the technology's infancy to make the point that all airbags are useless. I have personally used the airbags in a newer car, and I am very glad that they were there!
For more modern data, see #4 and #5 here:
Airbag Q&A
- Quote:
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NHTSA estimates that as of 2013, 39,886 lives have been saved by frontal airbags. 1 In frontal crashes, frontal airbags reduce driver fatalities by 29 percent and fatalities of front-seat passengers age 13 and older by 30 percent. The fatality reduction in frontal crashes is larger for belted drivers (52 percent) compared to unbelted drivers (21 percent).
NHTSA estimates that as of 2012, 2,252 lives have been saved by side airbags. 4 Side airbags with head protection reduce a car driver's risk of death in driver-side crashes by 37 percent and an SUV driver's risk by 52 percent, an Institute analysis of U.S. crashes showed. 5 Side airbags designed to protect only the torso reduce fatality risk by 26 percent for car drivers and by 30 percent for SUV drivers.
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Murf 59
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Apr 13 2016, 10:03 AM
Post #22
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I think they look great. I think its cool our Metros are still made somewhere. Is there a way to provide a link to our forum to the new buyers over there???
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mt999999
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Apr 13 2016, 11:13 AM
Post #23
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- scratchpaddy
- Apr 13 2016, 09:50 AM
- sser2
- Apr 12 2016, 05:14 PM
Agree. Airbag provides little protection in addition to lap/shoulder belt: Air bag protectionIt may be outright dangerous to smaller size vehicle occupants, particularly children.
Wow, that article is old. That's like pulling a news clipping from 1907 and saying, "look here, it says cars aren't that great. I'm sticking to my horse.  " Back in 1997, everybody was still using single-stage airbags that deployed with extreme force no matter who or what was in front of them. Things have improved tremendously since then. This is from the IIHS website: - Quote:
-
Occasionally, the energy required to quickly inflate airbags can cause injury to people sitting or thrown too close to the airbag before it deploys. This was a serious concern with the first generations of frontal airbags, which deployed with greater force. NHTSA estimates that during 1990-2008, more than 290 deaths were caused by frontal airbag inflation in low-speed crashes. 1 Nearly 90 percent of the deaths occurred in vehicles manufactured before 1998, and more than 80 percent of people killed were unbelted or improperly restrained. Most of the deaths were passengers, and more than 90 percent of those were children and infants, most of whom were unbelted or in rear-facing child safety seats that placed their heads close to the deploying airbag. Short and elderly drivers, who tend to sit close to the steering wheel, also were vulnerable to inflation injuries from frontal airbags. However, thanks to advanced airbag government requirements, serious airbag injuries are becoming a thing of the past.
In 1997, the federal government modified safety rules to encourage automakers to take energy out of frontal airbags. Depowering began with 1998 models. [...] Institute researchers found an overall reduction in fatal crash risk associated with newer depowered airbags compared with earlier designs. 2 A 2006 NHTSA study reported that redesigned airbags reduced fatality risk to child passengers by 45 percent, compared with pre-1998 airbags — without reducing the benefits for adults. 3
So, yes, the airbags in our Metros aren't all that effective, and they're dangerous to kids not wearing seatbelts. But it's not fair to use statistics from the technology's infancy to make the point that all airbags are useless. I have personally used the airbags in a newer car, and I am very glad that they were there! For more modern data, see #4 and #5 here: Airbag Q&A- Quote:
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NHTSA estimates that as of 2013, 39,886 lives have been saved by frontal airbags. 1 In frontal crashes, frontal airbags reduce driver fatalities by 29 percent and fatalities of front-seat passengers age 13 and older by 30 percent. The fatality reduction in frontal crashes is larger for belted drivers (52 percent) compared to unbelted drivers (21 percent).
NHTSA estimates that as of 2012, 2,252 lives have been saved by side airbags. 4 Side airbags with head protection reduce a car driver's risk of death in driver-side crashes by 37 percent and an SUV driver's risk by 52 percent, an Institute analysis of U.S. crashes showed. 5 Side airbags designed to protect only the torso reduce fatality risk by 26 percent for car drivers and by 30 percent for SUV drivers. I thought that article was a cool "throw back; best viewed with a monitor resolution of 800 X 600 ... granted, while not as accurate as could be. Unless, say, one was speaking of early Metro airbags such as the convertible driver's airbag; then it is applicable.
Kinda reminds me of my late 1940's/early 50's encyclopedia. Some great historic info such as the Great War and WWII, but the series of pages praising asbestos for it's use in construction and such, including a picture with a fireman in a full white asbestos suite kinda dates it... a lot. 
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MarkZ28
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Apr 13 2016, 03:53 PM
Post #24
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Airbags were first used in tge very early 79's in the Chevy Caprice. Wasnt a popular option so was only on one or two years, geuss it cost to much or there was no takers, or they worked so horribly that they stopped offering them. I think Mopar also tried some in one of their big cars about the same time.
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sser2
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Apr 13 2016, 04:07 PM
Post #25
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sser2
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- Murf 59
- Apr 13 2016, 10:03 AM
I think they look great. I think its cool our Metros are still made somewhere. Is there a way to provide a link to our forum to the new buyers over there??? Pakwheels.com has a blog and a discussion forum for Cultus:
Cultus forum
I have posted there to invite everybody to our forum.
The sad news from the blog: 2016 will be the last year for Cultus.
Blog
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mt999999
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Apr 14 2016, 08:35 AM
Post #26
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Self-Declared "Genious"
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- sser2
- Apr 13 2016, 04:07 PM
- Murf 59
- Apr 13 2016, 10:03 AM
I think they look great. I think its cool our Metros are still made somewhere. Is there a way to provide a link to our forum to the new buyers over there???
Pakwheels.com has a blog and a discussion forum for Cultus: Cultus forumI have posted there to invite everybody to our forum. The sad news from the blog: 2016 will be the last year for Cultus. Blog Shame! As if I could ever get one anyone anyway... maybe I'll import one in 25 years when Metros run out...
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myredvert
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Apr 14 2016, 09:21 AM
Post #27
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myredvert
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- Quote:
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I have to agree with you on this one. Airbags scare me, especially in older and older style cars. It's a good way to burn the skin off of your arms! It's puzzling that someone rationalize being more afraid of getting some "skin burnt off their arms" when the odds are greater of dying from a crash that an airbag may have saved them from than dying from an "unnecessary" airbag deployment. 
Sounds like the same discussion had in every single aviation training classroom environment I have been in throughout the last three decades of development of each and every safety system that has proven to reduce accidents where people believe they are better off without them. Yet statistics have and continue to prove they are wrong. There's perceived "better off" and there's reality.
Michael, check the two fuses in the SIR fusebox attached to the junction block under the dash. One of mine has come loose on a couple of occasions and has even fallen out completely, causing the light to illuminate steady. Hopefully you just have a loose fuse or connection there causing it to flash. 
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