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| Shimmy Woes | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 27 2016, 04:26 AM (612 Views) | |
| Donjuan77 | Sep 27 2016, 04:26 AM Post #1 |
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Really strange problem.. Got a pretty bad shake in the fornt end, but only under certain circumstances.. First, it only starts happening after I've been putting the car through it's paces for a while (I'm a pizza driver lol). It feels like a loose rubber band, so I went ahead and replaced all three engine/trans mounts, to no avail Strange thing is, it only happens when I'm taking off in 1st gear. Can't reproduce the shimmy in any other gear. Even tried with the car against a wall, but got nothing. Then I thought ok maybe it's an axle (car must be moving). Took them out but they seem fine. Have less than 10,000 miles on them. I even pulled the clutch, after realizing it's only happening as I'm letting out the clutch, thinking maybe a bad spring in it, but it looks fine. New AC Delco clutch with less than 10,000 miles. Not sure if they have any known issues I should be aware of, like springs that get tired easy?Took apart the strut assemblies, didn't see anything out of the ordinary. No missing parts here, right? ![]() But there's play in the strut mount where the strut comes through it. Should this be a tight fit? I have no idea. ![]() I guess my next move is to remove the sway bar, see if that will make the problem stand out more. Freakin' hate problems that only happen when you're moving, so hard to diagnose! I even tried to reproduce it with the car on jackstands with no luck >_> Edited by Donjuan77, Sep 27 2016, 04:30 AM.
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| snowfish | Sep 27 2016, 10:53 AM Post #2 |
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Basic GearHead
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Take a look at the rubber part of the strut mount. Looks to be some pretty good cracking going on there.
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| suzukitom | Sep 27 2016, 11:40 AM Post #3 |
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Tom
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I'm currently changing the strut mounts and strut bearings (black plastic bearing in your picture) tovget rid of creaking/snapping noises when turning the steering wheel on my 2000 metro. I don't know if it is related to a light shimmy on acceleration. Usually around 15 mph in 1st or 2nd.. that has always been there since I owned it. I think some rotating assembly like an axle is not quite true, and all the rubber in the drivetrain mountings is amplifying the vibration. |
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| Donjuan77 | Sep 27 2016, 06:45 PM Post #4 |
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suzukitom, when you install your mounts let me know if the strut fits snugly when you're sticking it through the mount. I think that might be a grease smudge, not a crack snowfish. I see some also on the edge of the top metal piece. I should have taken the sway bar off when I had it apart.. I think maybe that's preventing me from seeing how loose the A-arms are. |
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| suzukitom | Sep 27 2016, 10:12 PM Post #5 |
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Tom
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Okay.. just finished replacing my driver side strut/hub/knuckle. The car is much quieter and steering feels tighter now, and I think my shimmy on acceleration was mostly due to a worn out strut bearing on that side, and a worn wheel bearing and hub. The strut mount, when fully assembled with the top nut tightened down should feel stiff when trying to move it around. The rubber in the mount allows flexing movement, which makes sense as it has to allow the strut to change angle when your turn the steering wheel. If you have ever looked at a Geo motor mount, you probably know what I am talking about.. when I describe it as a rubbery movement which always returns to an original center position. Have you looked at member Audacity's excellent thread on strut replacement? http://geometroforum.com/topic/4251356/1/ One of the pictures in the how to thread shows a spacer in the area inside the strut mount and under the top cap - I did not notice that part in the pictures you posted.
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| Donjuan77 | Sep 28 2016, 12:46 AM Post #6 |
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Yeah I have those cylindrical spacers in there. So you didn't note how tight the fit of the strut was going through the mount? Seems like that would be important in keeping the alignment from having any free play, as it acts as the top bearing for hub geometry if I'm not mistaken. Everything feels tight otherwise. I do have a loose outer tie-rod I'll be replacing tomorrow. Maybe I'm over-thinking this and that will solve my problem. Just don't understand why it would only act up when the car's been driven more than ten miles, as that joint is loose all the time, but maybe I'll get lucky this time lol! |
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| suzukitom | Sep 28 2016, 01:41 AM Post #7 |
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Tom
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Sorry I misunderstood what you were asking me. Yes, I did note that the fit of the strut shaft as it went through the hole into the strut mount during re-assembly was a very loose fit. This was true for both the new and old strut and mounts. Only when the top nut was tightened to sandwich the strut mount between the upper bearing cover and top plate did everything tighten up. |
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| Donjuan77 | Sep 30 2016, 07:06 AM Post #8 |
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New tie-rod didn't fix it lol Well since fixing a cracked exhaust valve, I've got it running well enough to be able to drop the clutch and lug it at the starting-off speed it shimmy/shakes at. It refuses to shake though unless I have the clutch at mid-engagement. So I guess there was something I just didn't see when I removed the clutch for inspection.. I do vaguely remember a blue spot on the flywheel when I was replacing the clutch/tranny 10,000 miles ago, but it was mostly gone after resurfacing with an orbital sander. Maybe the metal has just had enough after 167,000 miles of Seattle hills It's just so hard to believe this is the culprit. I mean how could it be shaking the car so violently, and why only when starting off in 1st gear?? At least a Sachs clutch kit and flywheel for this tiny car runs only $140 shipped F it, time to start throwing parts at it!! lol
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| Mrbreeze | Sep 30 2016, 10:14 AM Post #9 |
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Orbital sander on your flywheel, that's the problem.. |
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| suzukitom | Sep 30 2016, 01:59 PM Post #10 |
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Tom
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What you have been calling shimmy is actually judder. Clutch Judder explained |
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| Donjuan77 | Sep 30 2016, 07:33 PM Post #11 |
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Well what I now know as judder was creating one hell of a shimmy/shake in the front end lol. Short of duct taping a camera in the engine bay, I couldn't tell if it was the engine or something in the suspension, as it would only happen as I was taking off, usually only on a hill, and only when the car was hot, in the middle of my pizza delivery shifts, when everyone was too busy to help look at it. I even modded my motor/trans mounts (stuffed pieces of rubber hose in the gaps to make them solid), so after that I thought it had to be something loose in the suspension. I wasn't trying to actually resurface the flywheel with the orbital sander, rather just rough it up a little to help break-in of the new clutch. I remember reading JohnnyMullet say that resurfacing isn't that critical on these small lightweight cars. Worked last time.. but I think once is the limit, shoulda took it in and had it resurfaced this time. Shouldn't have ignored that burnt blue spot on it. I'll probably be hitting the new flywheel with the sander too, as they sometimes come with machining grooves, like some rotors. Better to put a 'random directional' surface on it. Tough to get an even scuff in that recessed area though... Edited by Donjuan77, Sep 30 2016, 07:49 PM.
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| Mrbreeze | Oct 5 2016, 10:25 PM Post #12 |
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One thing to keep in mind, when a flywheel is resurfaced, they also resurface the flywheel where the pressure plate mounts to the flywheel to compensate for the material removed from the disc area.. |
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Strange thing is, it only happens when I'm taking off in 1st gear. Can't reproduce the shimmy in any other gear. Even tried with the car against a wall, but got nothing. Then I thought ok maybe it's an axle (car must be moving). Took them out but they seem fine. Have less than 10,000 miles on them. I even pulled the clutch, after realizing it's only happening as I'm letting out the clutch, thinking maybe a bad spring in it, but it looks fine. New AC Delco clutch with less than 10,000 miles. Not sure if they have any known issues I should be aware of, like springs that get tired easy?





It's just so hard to believe this is the culprit. I mean how could it be shaking the car so violently, and why only when starting off in 1st gear??
At least a Sachs clutch kit and flywheel for this tiny car runs only $140 shipped
F it, time to start throwing parts at it!! lol

7:30 PM Jul 10