Welcome to the all new Geo Metro Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit.You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are features you can't use and images you can't see. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: Join our community! |
| Running rough, where to start | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 5 2016, 05:53 PM (2,731 Views) | |
| nourishablegecko | Nov 6 2016, 07:58 PM Post #16 |
|
New Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Alright, you guys convinced me. I ordered the parts as well as the tools to complete a full rebuild and will be doing the piston rings as well. Hopefully this will fix everything. Thank you so much in advance for your help; I'm definitely going to need a lot more when I undertake the final job. |
![]() |
|
| nettled | Nov 6 2016, 08:35 PM Post #17 |
|
Cat Whisperer
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Honing guide I found helpful http://geometroforum.com/topic/5013448/1/#new Although I found holding a consistent speed + up and down motion with the drill and hone to be pretty simple. And if you haven't done anything like this before try to keep the basics in mind. All gasket surfaces need to be very clean and flat. Torque everything back down to factory specs. When using silicone with gaskets use very little, spread it as thin as you possibly can...make sure you clean all of the ring grooves in your pistons really well before putting the new rings on them. (break an old ring in half and use that to scrape the carbon out, it's already the perfect size for each groove) You'll also need a ring compressor tool to put the pistons back in. Looks like a coiled black can of beans with a clamp on it, about $12ish at advance auto I think. (wear gloves, it's basically a coiled razor that wants your blood) Also keep your pistons and bearings in order when you remove them, put them back in the way you found them. Be sure to clean the block and crankshaft off well after honing and when you go to put the pistons back in drop them in from the top with the ring compressor and lay under the car while someone gently taps them down the rest of the way with something soft (like the plastic handle of a big screwdriver) that way you can easily guide it back onto the crank shaft while it's being tapped down. lots of people on this site that know these cars really well. I've found being as specific as possible with my questions and providing as much info as I can usually helps get the quickest most helpful responses. I've only had the Metro disease 8 months now. This club has made learning these little cars much easier |
![]() |
|
| nourishablegecko | Nov 6 2016, 08:38 PM Post #18 |
|
New Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Alright, that sounds great. From what I'm seeing, it honestly doesn't look too bad, and I think I'm just going to pull the whole engine so I can get at it and clean it from every single angle, and see everything that might need attention. I have a bad back and don't know how well my body will treat me with days spent bent over in my engine bay. It's gonna be quite a sight to have an engine in my room! I'll keep you updated for sure, and will come back with questions. I'll have tons. I ordered a 3 legged type of hone, will that work okay or should I have used the one that looks like a cluster of berries? |
![]() |
|
| ptcapboy | Nov 7 2016, 07:07 AM Post #19 |
![]()
|
are you going to rebuild your head or buy a rebuilt one? I have dealt with the ebay guy in Spokane who gives you a ticket to mail back your head free of charge-about the same price as the one you posted also with free shipping to you- |
![]() |
|
| nourishablegecko | Nov 7 2016, 08:51 AM Post #20 |
|
New Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I am going to attempt to rebuild my head. If it turns out that the head is too far gone and won't be able to be repaired, I will either take it to a machine shop or buy a new head. |
![]() |
|
| nettled | Nov 7 2016, 07:00 PM Post #21 |
|
Cat Whisperer
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Are you doing a full rebuild on the block? (crank bearings, oil pump, water pump, rear main + front crank seal etc? or are you just honing it? If you're not replacing bearings and seals (just honing) you could save yourself a whole lot of labor by leaving the block and transmission in the car. And you would be opening a lot less potential cans of worms if you're short on time. Just remember any car this old is going to be a never ending can of worms. The more you take out to work on the engine the more parts you're going to come across that you'll feel you might as well replace while you're in there. Not necessarily a bad thing but it can easily make the cost (time and money) go up. umm...from what I read/watched it seemed the straight bar hones do a better job but require the person using them to pay a little more attention to what they're doing. Just be careful not to go too deep with the hone and you'll be ok. (check your work often, use lots of oil) If you go too deep it would be easy for the hone to drop out the bottom and shatter. I rebuilt the 95 inside, on a dresser ![]() ...things you'll probably find if you pull the whole engine and transmission: 1. The main coolant pipe coming off the back of the water pump housing will probably be in piss poor condition. All 3 I've encountered were. 2 were salvageable with a wirewheel, paint and by carefully glueing the o-ring to the pipe and letting it dry before inserting it into the pump. 1 pipe had to be replaced 2. when you pull the axles so you can yank the transmission out they will probably be pretty floppy (they shouldn't be) and if the boots are torn you may want to consider replacing them as well. If you unclip the brake line from the shock tower and unbolt the 2 bolts that hold the shock to the steering knuckle you can pop the axles out without having to disconnect tie rod ends, ball joints or any other stuff. Just unlock the steering column and by turning the wheel all the way one way or the other with the shock disconnected you have just enough clearance to slip the axle out of the wheel hub. After that a small pry bar pops them out of the tranny pretty easy. 3. Make sure all the coolant passageways in your intake manifold are clear, pretty important for the ecu temp sensor. 4. When you separate the engine and transmission even if your clutch looks brand new and shiny for the love of Metros please at least replace the pilot bearing (the little one pressed into the flywheel) 5. At this point just assume all your vacuum lines are garbage. Bring some sample pieces down to a hardware store and by a few feet of new lines. Replace all your vacuum lines. The big one that goes to your brake booster is probably dry/hard/cracked/half plugged solid right where it attached to the manifold. Replace that line too. As far as the head goes...I really really hate to say this (you have no idea how much because I prefer to do my own damn work on everything. Computers, furnaces, boats, cars, tattoo machines I don't give a f*ck, I fix my own sh*t, period)....so it's really painful for me to say that the head is best left to professionals...they have access to equipment you and I do not. Sure you could buy all new valves, valve guides and seals. You could try to lap the valves in by hand...in the end you'll wind up with a better head if you let a machine shop handle it. Besides you'll have plenty of other things to do while you're waiting for them to give it back to you. I'm looking forward to finding a spare 5 speed so I can get the bearing+synchro kit and rebuild my first transmission. Looks like fun...I still let machine shops do heads for me. I've brought the local shop 4 heads and 2 bare blocks (all Metro) Wish you the best of luck on this project...just remember...when something goes wrong or something breaks or you discover you need to replace even more stuff...no matter how bad it is or how much more it's going to cost...it would cost a whole lot more and be a lot harder to replace on almost any other car you could possibly own, so smile. you're working on a clown car ![]() |
![]() |
|
| Dystopiate666 | Nov 7 2016, 07:45 PM Post #22 |
|
Tree Banger
![]()
|
If you are just doing your own budget head job, I would recommend at least having the flatness of the head head checked with the right tools (machinist straightedge and feeler gauges). I had really good luck cleaning up the carbon as best I could with copper brillo and gasoline and then lapping in new valves. took my compression numbers from 150 120 90 up to 165 165 170 and did all disassembly and reassembly at home. Probably would have been closer to that 200 mark if I had taken it to the professional though. Lastly, if you bought a cheapo head kit online I would highly, highly recommend that you get felpro exhaust and intake manifold gaskets (the side by side difference is unreal) and with the risk of blowby on the bottom end, I would make sure I had the head gasket with the big drain back holes. |
![]() |
|
| nourishablegecko | Nov 7 2016, 10:39 PM Post #23 |
|
New Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Wow, that's a lot of information nettled! I'm going to leave the block in the car then. I plan to pull the head tomorrow; today I removed the valve cover, timing cover, set it to TDC, drained all fluids and did other prep. I will take lots of pictures and ask for advice when I get it off! I bought all of my parts from enginepartsonly; they seemed legit and had lots of parts in stock, so I figured I'd give it a shot. I did buy felpro intake and exhaust gaskets separately however. |
![]() |
|
| freegeo | Nov 7 2016, 11:43 PM Post #24 |
![]()
|
Did you get a head gasket also? |
![]() |
|
| nettled | Nov 8 2016, 06:41 AM Post #25 |
|
Cat Whisperer
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
yeah, i can ramble at length at sometimes ![]() I never heard of enginepartsonly.com but I'll keep it in mind. Always nice to have multiple parts sources. I'm actually waiting on 4 rockauto packages to arrive this week. Also, compare your old timing belt to your new one. Make sure they have the same style teeth (round or square) Apparently you can put the wrong one on (previous owner of my 94 did) but that's like making the timing belt hold on by the tips of it's finger nails. |
![]() |
|
| nourishablegecko | Nov 8 2016, 10:59 AM Post #26 |
|
New Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Alright, quick question and this may be a dumb one. I'm finally removing the head and snapped my socket adapter on my breaker bar, and the only socket I have left is a 12 point.. Is it safe to use this socket, or should I go buy a new 6 sided type? Last thing I want is to strip a head bolt |
![]() |
|
| nourishablegecko | Nov 8 2016, 02:00 PM Post #27 |
|
New Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Okay! A very, very productive day. I spent my morning pulling the head and here is where I'm at. http://imgur.com/gallery/Hd9u5 The head is shot to hell, for sure, but the bottom end actually looks really good to me. Then again, I don't know anything and that's why I'm posting here. I've included pictures of the cylinder walls and pretty much everything I could get an angle on. Right now, I'm thinking a very very good cleaning, new valves all around, and obviously new seals and whatnot, but I feel like the bottom end really doesn't look bad and the top was a very large reason for the weak compression. There is a LOT of gunk caked up on every visible surface. I'm gonna have one hell of a time cleaning Any thoughts? Any hopes? I feel great! This was SO much easier than I thought it would be. These engines are amazing! Going from my VR6 to this is like a dream. Thanks to everyone who's helping! |
![]() |
|
| Stupidmouth | Nov 8 2016, 06:04 PM Post #28 |
|
New Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Take that head to a machine shop and getcho shine on bo iii!!But seriously, you went through the rigors of pulling the head and disassembling everything, now finish proper with a resurfacing port polish pressure test and all. Valves don't need to be replaced you can get away with reusing them if they're not burnt, bent,badly pitted etc...but definitely spend the extra few bucks at a machine shop and you'll sleep easier knowing your blocks good to go for another 150k Edited by Stupidmouth, Nov 8 2016, 06:11 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| nourishablegecko | Nov 8 2016, 06:15 PM Post #29 |
|
New Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
How much will a machine shop cost? And how do I go about finding one, just googling? |
![]() |
|
| nettled | Nov 8 2016, 06:24 PM Post #30 |
|
Cat Whisperer
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Well I have to say it's cleaner than any of the Metros I've started with It's really up to you how far you take this project. Lets say you want to completely leave the block alone and just put a new head on. What's it going to cost you if it still has low compression and you should have at least put new rings in...not that much really...it was easy to take apart right? You're going to clean your intake manifold and such while it's off right? You're going to replace vacuum lines and such right?...so if you have to take the head back off all of your parts will already be clean the 2nd time around, you'll already have done the job and dealt with the timing once...the second time around will be even easier and you'll already have a good head so it will just cost you the time to take it back off and a new headgasket set (not much) of course it's better to do the rings, it's even better to completely rebuild the engine, and transmission and axles and brakes and fuel system etc etc...you have to decide where to draw the line and when. If you think it looks good and want to risk losing a few hours to take it back off and about $40 in gaskets then slap it back together with a new head, if you're worried about time it wouldn't do any real harm especially if you plan on giving the engine a more complete rebuild than just rings later on anyway. but...you also already have the head off and it's only about $40ish for the hone and rings and a few hours of your time to just drop the oil pan, pop out the pistons give it a quick hone (litterally took me less than 10 minutes to hone all 3 cylinders once I started) I hymmed and hawed over this exact situation myself 2 weekends ago. I honed it, and slapped it back together. Easy peasy. Ran great but the clutch pilot bearing came apart so I only drove it about 2 feet. spent last weekend pulling just the transmission out (very easy fyi) and cleaning 22 years of grease and grime off of it. I will be putting it back together this weekend and hopefully driving it, you know out of the driveway... anyway, sorry I've been rambling again...to hone or not to hone at this point in your project? not to hone = less time now, risk $40 and more time later - lower end compression situation unknown to hone = $40 and an afternoon of your time now - lower end compression situation at least better if not super dooper you be the judge. If after taking the head off you bonked yourself on the head and thought to yourself (gee whiz that was easy, what the hell was I so worried about?) Then I would opt for honing and rings so you can bonk yourself again
|
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Engine Tech & Diagnostics · Next Topic » |


Welcome to the all new Geo Metro Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit.


![]](http://z3.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)






iii!!
9:34 AM Jul 11