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| Running rough, where to start | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 5 2016, 05:53 PM (2,730 Views) | |
| nettled | Nov 8 2016, 06:33 PM Post #31 |
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Cat Whisperer
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I've been paying in the $150 to $200 range for head work but they might be giving me a discount because they feel bad for me after going from MR2 work to all these geo parts I keep bringing them haha I like to go investigate machine shops in person, bring the head with you and bug the guy there about it. It's usually not hard to tell if you're dealing with an idiot or not. I also prefer machine shops that are a little more on the filthy side and have so many heads/blocks that you fear you might die in an avalanche of heavy cast iron and aluminum if someone sneezes. But that's just me. I'd say if they want more than $300 you're being hosed (it's a freakin 3 cylinder) and if the guy at the counter seems lost or confused go someplace else, immediately. |
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| nourishablegecko | Nov 8 2016, 07:41 PM Post #32 |
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New Member
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Alright, I made the decision to purchase a rebuilt head off eBay that uses my own lifters and camshaft, along with all new seals, head bolts, timing kit, and a few other goodies. I have yet to decide whether or not I will touch the bottom end. Based on the pictures and numbers, what are the odds I can just replace the rings without honing? The cylinder walls looked to be extremely clean and cross-hatched. Do I have to hone? I'm a little nervous to do that. Let me know what I can do. I want to build a geo that can take me across the state, without hesitation, time and time again and I'm willing to put in the work to do it. |
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| nettled | Nov 8 2016, 08:19 PM Post #33 |
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Cat Whisperer
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If it makes you too nervous by all means skip the rings and honing, it's your call. If you want to do it later you're only out some time and a gasket set, not that bad. but if you don't want to try honing it I wouldn't bother with the rings. The actual honing part is the easiest part of changing the rings. Without honing the odds of your new rings seating properly are not very good. Definitely do what you're comfortable with...but if you think you are capable of changing the rings to be able to hone all you have to be capable of is... 1. can you hold a cordless drill at the same speed? 2. Can you move your arm up and down at a smooth even rate while performing 1.? 3. Can you squirt oil over the cylinder walls before performing 1 and 2? 4. After performing 1 and 2 can you look at the cylinder walls for an even sheen? detect any low/dull spots? If yes you can handle honing. repeat 1, 2 and 3 until it looks even. |
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| nineoneandblue | Nov 8 2016, 08:30 PM Post #34 |
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Make sure you remove that brass check valve in the block( located over by cyl #1) and HANG ON TO IT! Don't forget to put it back after all the cleanup is done,really important! http://geometroforum.com/single/?p=607714&t=4464045 Also the head alignment "dowels", 2 located on opposite corners of the head. Also...... the rebuilt head I got from eBay didn't have all the intake and exhaust studs on it, may want to remove yours or just by new like I had to. Edited by nineoneandblue, Nov 8 2016, 08:43 PM.
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| nourishablegecko | Nov 12 2016, 09:24 PM Post #35 |
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New Member
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Alright, quick question on the rebuild. I have all parts in, and am assembling my new head and have run into a problem with the camshaft. I have it set to where it was before (made a mark on TDC on the camshaft sprocket) and the distributor will not go into the cylinder head with the little metal arm up as it was when I disassembled it; it will only go in with the little arm down. I can take pictures if needed. Is the distributor 180 degrees out, or should I rotate my camshaft 180 to have the distributor right? No matter how I try and put it together, it will not go. Thanks in advance! |
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| nettled | Nov 12 2016, 10:00 PM Post #36 |
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Cat Whisperer
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Bad Bent has a nice timing guide http://geometroforum.com/topic/2232748/1/ If you have the timing gear with spokes (like shown in bad bents post) there should be 2 numbers stamped in the spokes and it kind of looks like either could be the timing mark. The 95(Booger) I rebuilt had that timing gear and I remember it being a little puzzling putting it back together. I think the one stamped 80 is your camgear timing mark but I'm not 100% positive The distributor should only go in one way so if it's not pointing at #1 then odds are the cam isn't at TDC. |
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| Woodie | Nov 13 2016, 05:45 AM Post #37 |
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There is a dowel pin sticking out the front of the camshaft which locates the sprocket correctly. When everything is at TDC, that dowel pin points straight down at the crankshaft. You say you made a mark on the sprocket, did it coincide with a factory mark? If you turn over the crankshaft one full turn, the crankshaft timing mark will align, the camshaft timing mark should align, and the rotor will be pointing at #1. Remember, the crank turns twice as fast as the cam, so there is a position where the crank is lined up and the cam is 180° off. This is normal, you just need one more crankshaft turn. |
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| nourishablegecko | Nov 13 2016, 05:21 PM Post #38 |
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New Member
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Alright, put the engine all together today and when I went to crank it over, had nothing at all. Went back and checked my grounds, and found that I missed one connection to the starter which I then connected and the engine now cranks, but does not start. There is smoke coming out of the intake and there was some fire I saw, right by where the air filter sits, and the engine will not start still. Does it just need some time to crank to get everything flowing? Is it possible my timing is off? I know I messed up 2 things; there is one wire that is not connected coming from the distributor because I could not find the wire, but found it in my room and will connect it again tomorrow. Also, to the left of the intake where there is a small module with three (?) vacuum lines going to that I think originally bolted onto the intake, but I forgot and it is currently dangling. There are also two wires right up against the wire wall that were not connected when I bought the car and it was running, and are still currently disconnected. Could that cause an issue with grounds? I've attached pictures and a video of everything I'm working with (not sure if the video uploaded correctly; let me know if it didnt). Any help would be greatly appreciated. |
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| nourishablegecko | Nov 13 2016, 05:21 PM Post #39 |
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New Member
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http://imgur.com/a/Aj8ZF ^link to pictures |
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| Crvett69 | Nov 13 2016, 05:43 PM Post #40 |
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that ground wire to the dist needs to be connected. should also be 3 to rear of the intake manifold |
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| nourishablegecko | Nov 13 2016, 07:20 PM Post #41 |
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New Member
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Alright, update. Went back out to the car and connected that ground wire coming off the distributor, and the car sounds almost like it wants to start. I pulled the spark plugs, sprayed compressed air into the cylinder to try and dry off any oils or anything that might be in there, and checked all three plugs to make sure they were getting spark, and they are. I rotated the engine to what i believe is top dead center, but I'm honestly not positive. When I was putting it back together, there were two notches on the cam crank along with a mark on one of the legs of the crank. I put it at what i thought was top dead, but I'm now realizing that my marks may not line up with what everyone else's looks like. I have attached two pictures; one is through the timing belt cover where I believe it is at TDC, and the other is of the rotor although I should clarify that the rotor is not at TDC in the picture; when it is, the rotor is completely up at the top. http://imgur.com/gallery/I7KYQ I have also attached a video of it trying to crank over. I apologize that it's so dark, but it is very clear (to me at least) that the engine sounds like it wants to start, but is blowing what seems like fuel out of the intake and begins to ignite occasionally. It basically doesn't make any noise at all, then spurts and will occasionally ignite, then nothing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR_SFEDTEuw&feature=youtu.be Any advice? I'm starting to think the timing is 180 off or the exhaust valve is hanging open; these are new lifters that I put in and I'm not leaving anything out. Thanks to anyone that might be able to help, I seriously wouldn't be able to do this without you guys |
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| freegeo | Nov 13 2016, 09:14 PM Post #42 |
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Double check the timing marks. Set the crank gear where the mark lines up with the arrow on the oil pump housing. The cam gear should have the dow pin in the 6 oclock postion. Is that what you have. You will need to take the cover off to verify it is correct. Have you checked the compression with the engine as it is? Edited by freegeo, Nov 13 2016, 09:15 PM.
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| nourishablegecko | Nov 13 2016, 09:17 PM Post #43 |
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New Member
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I'll absolutely double check. I could've sworn that I lined everything up correctly, and that the crank gear was good but I'm honestly not positive, there were multiple marks and everyone's pictures of aligning the timing don't seem to be possible with mine. I also have two marks on both the crank and cam that the previous owner must've put on there, and I'm starting to wonder if they align with anything at all. I'll double check in the morning. Would it be possibly backfiring if I didn't soak the new lifters in oil before I put them in? I only lubricated them and checked for functionality, but used lots of oil during assembly. |
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| nettled | Nov 13 2016, 09:32 PM Post #44 |
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Cat Whisperer
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sounds like freegeo is right and your timing is off. It'll run if it's off a tooth or two, but not well. Sounds yours is more than a tooth or 2 off. https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/192750_CamAlignment95Metro4cyl_1.jpg for the cam marks http://s18.postimg.org/yiuuofsix/2015_03_12_10_13_50.jpg for the crank I didn't put the arrow in that pic, but near the bottom of the arrow you can see the timing mark on the oil pump housing and the little divot in the crank gear above the keyway part of the crank. be very careful to get your timing marks lined up properly. no amount of fiddling will make it run right if those are off. I leave my timing covers off for ease of access. I trimmed one down so it has just the timing marks on it. |
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| freegeo | Nov 13 2016, 09:39 PM Post #45 |
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If this is a 97 it should be lined up like this. The cam gear should look like this and line up like this. ![]() The crank gear should look like this. The stamped mark on the outside of the tooth of the crank gear should line up with the arrow or mark on the oil pump housing. C and D in the picture. |
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