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suddenly not starting; new to Geos
Topic Started: Nov 15 2016, 12:34 PM (748 Views)
novaz
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I have a 1993 Geo Metro 3 cylinder
Saturday I drove it approx. 50 miles everything was fine
sunday morning it would not start
checked the plugs and they are all sparking ok
fuel pump which is new is turning on ok
removed the aircleaner and poured a little gas in there
still not firing up
battery is full charged and gas tank is 3/4 full
any help would be appreciated
Thanks
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freegeo
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You need 3 things, Compression, fuel and spark.

Have you checked compression?

What did the spark look like? A white / blue color?

Are the plugs wet looking? It could possibly be getting to much gas.

Can you see fuel on the throttle plate while the engine is cranking over?

Is your check engine light on?
Edited by freegeo, Nov 15 2016, 12:43 PM.
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David95237


Might want to take off the oil cap and see if the cam is turning when trying to start. Might be a broken timing belt.
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novaz
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freegeo
Nov 15 2016, 12:43 PM
You need 3 things, Compression, fuel and spark.

Have you checked compression?

What did the spark look like? A white / blue color?

Are the plugs wet looking? It could possibly be getting to much gas.

Can you see fuel on the throttle plate while the engine is cranking over?

Is your check engine light on?
Thanks for the reply
I am assuming my compression is ok as it had been running fine the day previous
spark was whiteish
plugs were not soaking wet just damp with fuel
I need to do the last check you mention
I also have a new aircleaner element
but mystified why it has stopped running overnight
Thanks
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novaz
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David95237
Nov 15 2016, 12:46 PM
Might want to take off the oil cap and see if the cam is turning when trying to start. Might be a broken timing belt.
Thank you had not thought of that
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freegeo
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novaz
Nov 15 2016, 12:48 PM
David95237
Nov 15 2016, 12:46 PM
Might want to take off the oil cap and see if the cam is turning when trying to start. Might be a broken timing belt.
Thank you had not thought of that
If you actually have spark the timing belt can't be broke.
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ptcapboy


try to start it will the fuel pump relay removed to see if it's getting too much fuel-
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novaz
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ptcapboy
Nov 15 2016, 04:39 PM
try to start it will the fuel pump relay removed to see if it's getting too much fuel-
I will try that I did remove fuel lines and its getting quite a flow but am unsure if that's too much
I also replaced plugs and air filter it did cough as though trying to start when I floored throttle but nothing more
I live off grid alone and 25 miles to town so my responses are only when I get to library once or twice a week
Thank you for help so far
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MarkyMayhem


fuel - spark - compression

AT THE RIGHT TIME!

Timing light
Check for jumped belt tooth
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novaz
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MarkyMayhem
Nov 17 2016, 11:55 AM
fuel - spark - compression

AT THE RIGHT TIME!

Timing light
Check for jumped belt tooth
I have fuel and spark as mentioned I had driven it the day before it would not start the next day nothing so I am assuming it has compression ok what would the timing be I need to buy a timing light tool .
I left the car for two days and again it coughed as though to start but nothing beginning to think maybe bad fuel got mixed in
Thanks for your help
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MR1 Kingsbury
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Exp. builder/rebuilder

splash a shotglass of fuel down the intake and wait 10 seconds... Then turn it over... If spark is correct and valves in time it will run at least briefly before running out of gas. If you are off only a single tooth, it should still run (like crap) couple teeth and you should at least get backfire through intake or exhaust. I suspect fuel delivery.... Tis the season for fuel injector failures.

I see you are in Arizona.... reduce that wait time to 5 seconds..
throttle open but not wide open.
Edited by MR1 Kingsbury, Nov 19 2016, 11:11 AM.
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novaz
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MR1 Kingsbury
Nov 19 2016, 10:58 AM
splash a shotglass of fuel down the intake and wait 10 seconds... Then turn it over... If spark is correct and valves in time it will run at least briefly before running out of gas. If you are off only a single tooth, it should still run (like crap) couple teeth and you should at least get backfire through intake or exhaust. I suspect fuel delivery.... Tis the season for fuel injector failures.

I see you are in Arizona.... reduce that wait time to 5 seconds..
throttle open but not wide open.
Thank you
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MarkyMayhem


A timing light verifies spark at the right time. The distributor runs off the cam. If the timing cant be made correct by adjusting the distributor, suspect jumped time(ing belt). Auto parts stores will usually loan a light, you pay & get yr $$ upon tool return. I'd give that a go if you're still stuck.
I don't have a lot of experience with throttle body injection but for the most part injectors dont tend to fail catastrophicly overnight. Fuel pumps have been known to do so. Instead of a shot glass of gasoline maybe try some starting fluid down the throttle body and see if it tries to start and run for a second before you mess with the timing light that will definitely narrow things down to fuel delivery, or not. Tis the season.
Edit - make sure your timing marks on the belt cover are clean. I like a dot of whiteout on the pulley, at the timing notch, if its clean enough
Edit 2 - forgot you tested for fuel flow!
Edited by MarkyMayhem, Nov 19 2016, 09:28 PM.
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novaz
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MarkyMayhem
Nov 19 2016, 09:20 PM
A timing light verifies spark at the right time. The distributor runs off the cam. If the timing cant be made correct by adjusting the distributor, suspect jumped time(ing belt). Auto parts stores will usually loan a light, you pay & get yr $$ upon tool return. I'd give that a go if you're still stuck.
I don't have a lot of experience with throttle body injection but for the most part injectors dont tend to fail catastrophicly overnight. Fuel pumps have been known to do so. Instead of a shot glass of gasoline maybe try some starting fluid down the throttle body and see if it tries to start and run for a second before you mess with the timing light that will definitely narrow things down to fuel delivery, or not. Tis the season.
Edit - make sure your timing marks on the belt cover are clean. I like a dot of whiteout on the pulley, at the timing notch, if its clean enough
Edit 2 - forgot you tested for fuel flow!
Hi
I tried the gas down injector and next day tried starting fluid both times it coughed as though it would start but nothing more doing a compression test this weekend and also getting the timing light thanks for ya help
also checked/tested the fuses it has a new fuel pump and filters.
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novaz
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novaz
Nov 22 2016, 09:57 AM
MarkyMayhem
Nov 19 2016, 09:20 PM
A timing light verifies spark at the right time. The distributor runs off the cam. If the timing cant be made correct by adjusting the distributor, suspect jumped time(ing belt). Auto parts stores will usually loan a light, you pay & get yr $$ upon tool return. I'd give that a go if you're still stuck.
I don't have a lot of experience with throttle body injection but for the most part injectors dont tend to fail catastrophicly overnight. Fuel pumps have been known to do so. Instead of a shot glass of gasoline maybe try some starting fluid down the throttle body and see if it tries to start and run for a second before you mess with the timing light that will definitely narrow things down to fuel delivery, or not. Tis the season.
Edit - make sure your timing marks on the belt cover are clean. I like a dot of whiteout on the pulley, at the timing notch, if its clean enough
Edit 2 - forgot you tested for fuel flow!
Hi
I tried the gas down injector and next day tried starting fluid both times it coughed as though it would start but nothing more doing a compression test this weekend and also getting the timing light thanks for ya help
also checked/tested the fuses it has a new fuel pump and filters.
well I think this is the answer
compression was 70 on #1 #2 but non existent on #3
so I must have been lucky on my last trip for it to start and run
I wish it had been a mechanical failure as at least theni could have used the car as a off grid generator
I don't want to put money in this as the body is pretty much shot
I may take the head off just to make sure its not just a broken valve.
Thanks to all for the help
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