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Geo's Garage; things I work on
Topic Started: Jun 13 2017, 10:41 PM (927 Views)
geogonfa
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Figured I start a log of sorts, mostly of the fun working on and restoring Metros and other vehicles...I get to see some neat stuff and work on a lot of problem child's....
anyways I will show this one first...

A '93 3/5 was brought to me today...symptoms were; sluggish take off, lower than normal power with the a/c on, can't accelerate over 60 mph...checked the system and the sensors, as well as the compression, all sensors are good and the idle is steady, BTW: 190,190,195...so I decided to check the timing, low and behold a jumpin' timing mark...so I decided to remove the timing cover to check the timing belt. When I tried to remove the crank gear I noticed while moving the lower timing gear bolt the timing gear moved back and forth with it, I have a couple ways to try to repair this, But, the smart thing to do is replace the crankshaft or have it repaired. I will post picks of my quick repair later...anyways this is what I discovered:
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Car Nut
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Yikes. I hate it when that happens. :lol
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idmetro
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Ouch!
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georandy
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:popcorn
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Bannedfonz
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So, maybe a silly question, but what causes that key to break? I've seen a few posts over the last few years about the key being broke off. Maybe having the belt too tight??? Just wondering what to look for to prevent the same fate.
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Woodie
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The bolt in the crankshaft works loose and then the sprocket rattles back and forth on the key, eventually breaking it and wallowing out the slot in the process. There was a tech bulletin on this around 91 or so, they increased the torque spec for that bolt and started using LockTite in the factory. So, MK2 cars and any car which has had the crankshaft sprocket removed for any reason is susceptible to this problem.
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geogonfa
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Woodie
Jun 15 2017, 06:13 AM
The bolt in the crankshaft works loose and then the sprocket rattles back and forth on the key, eventually breaking it and wallowing out the slot in the process. There was a tech bulletin on this around 91 or so, they increased the torque spec for that bolt and started using LockTite in the factory. So, MK2 cars and any car which has had the crankshaft sprocket removed for any reason is susceptible to this problem.
Every time I do a timing belt I like to replace the cam and crank seals, then I always clean and put locktite on the crank bolt before torquing it down...this bolt had no locktite and was not as tight as it should have been...
My repair without having to remove/replace/repair the crankshaft. btw, this is only a Quick repair and am not recommending it as a permanent repair... bought some 1/4" x 3/4" Woodruff Keys from Tractor supply and used a micrometer and a dremel to fit the shape of the crankshaft wallowed out slot...replaced the crank seal then put it all back togeather, it fit good and the gear went on tight with no play, added locktite and torqued the crank bolt to spec...as of now, everything is working great but, only time will tell...
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georandy
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:cheers :thumb on the repair and clever method. I hope it lasts forever.
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Metromightymouse
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Powdercoat Wizard

Out of all the various ideas for ways to make this repair, this is the most likely to have long term success if done properly. I suspect this could be considered a permanent fix in this instance.
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Bannedfonz
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Well done on the repair...

As far as I know, my gear has never been removed. I guess next time I'm in there i need to make sure and take the bolt out and locktite the crap out of it! lol
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Moringa
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Living BOT

Thanks for pics, and info. I don't suppose anyone has suggested cutting out just enough of the unibody, so you can run an extension, straight through to the crank bolt. On my 96, you can almost remove it with an impact, without dropping the engine. Some oriental engineer is probably having a good laugh over this. (revenge for Hiroshima and Nagasaki)
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suzukitom
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Tom

Moringa
Jun 16 2017, 12:42 AM
Thanks for pics, and info. I don't suppose anyone has suggested cutting out just enough of the unibody, so you can run an extension, straight through to the crank bolt. On my 96, you can almost remove it with an impact, without dropping the engine. Some oriental engineer is probably having a good laugh over this. (revenge for Hiroshima and Nagasaki)
Lowering the front corner of the engine enough (2 inches) to put a socket on the crank bolt is easy. The passenger mount through bolt removed and a floor jack and wooden block under the oil pan.

On 4 cylinder engines it's even easier. Replace the 2 vertical passenger motor mount bolts with longer ones and loosen them enough to lower the engine.
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freegeo
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The factory doesn't use locktite on the crank bolt. I have looked but haven't ever been able to find info about a TSB being issued. If you want to use locktite that's your choice to do so.
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Moringa
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freegeo
Jun 16 2017, 12:36 PM
The factory doesn't use locktite on the crank bolt. I have looked but haven't ever been able to find info about a TSB being issued. If you want to use locktite that's your choice to do so.
Most TSBs result from problems which develop during the warranty period of the vehicle. Sometimes you will get TSBs after this, but they are usually safety issues. Because the jostling of the lower gear would take a while to create a measurable problem, it probably slipped under the radar. It's an obvious problem, and doing something is necessary. I've rarely used the maximum strength Loctite, but I've used the medium, or "blue," many times. I've also used RTV as a thread locker, which seems to work well, when heat is not a factor.
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geogonfa
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Had another crankshaft problem today (sorry no pics, I had a lot on my plate, and as usual, not enough time)...
She came to see me because my buddy down at AZ gave her my address, she told me she had a serious oil leak from
the front of the engine :( ...info: 2000 1.3 auto 4dr. sedan, original owner, 82k on the odo,
upon inspection the crank seal was dropping a drop every second... :smackface
I asked her if she had any work done recently and she told me the local big chain store replaced
her timing belt and crankshaft seal, and she had been back twice for the same leak,
each time a different reason why it was leaking and charged her for the labor... :ermm:
BTW, up until this work had been done she never had the leak...
I explained that I would have to take it apart to see whats wrong and I would have to charge a 2 hour min.,
but it would be applied to any work to be done, she agreed. again upon inspection...
whom ever removed the old original crank seal wasn't careful and scratched the crankshaft, luckily not too deep...
and it was just enough of a burr to cut the seal.
Showing her the scratch and also explaining her options as well as what I wanted to try without removing the engine,
she said to go for it,
I used an emery nail file board and carefully smoothed out the scratch enough to smooth out the rough edges...
( trying to totally remove the scratch would create another problem and it would be best done by a machine shop or by using a repair sleeve).
I used a magnet to pick up any dust and installed a new Felpro/National crank seal
(another note; strange, there were no markings on the seal I removed).
Also replaced the cam seal while everything was apart...
I didn't have a spare water pump so I just inspected it...looked good... reassembled, cleaned, locktite, and torqued the crank/cam bolts...set the timing...and Whoo Hooo, no oil leak... :thumb
received a phone call this evening, she said she had been driving all day and no leak, she just wanted to thank me...the job took about 3 hr. so I charged for that and the cost of the seals...
BTW...told about the forum and told her it's a great place to meet other Metro owners...so maybe, but, probably not...
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