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| DIY clearing of clog beyond P-Trap?; Home plumbing | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 24 2017, 08:09 AM (567 Views) | |
| BillHoo | Jul 24 2017, 08:09 AM Post #1 |
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Anyone ever have to clear clogged plumbing beyond the P-Trap in a kitchen sink? Usually straighforward. I go under the sink, remove the P-Trap, clear the gunk and the snatding water goes away. This time, I've not been able to find the clog. History of home - elderly couple who used to pour their grease down the drain. Also have garbage disposal. What I found: Disposal and P-trap are clean and clear. Drainage had been slowly getting slower and slower past few week. (hour for the sink to drain. After leaving overnight, it took 27 seconds of running water before the sink started to fill and then just sit there. P-Trap goes to cast iron pipe curved down, then into the wall about 5 inches and then makes a left turn just after the drywall. Initially could not get a snake past 5 inches. Used a Steel Coil Sink snake (Harbor freight $8 I think) and eventually quarter-sized chunks of white stuff came out with lots of black goo (black blood of the Earth?). Drain snake - flat steel ribbon cable with swirly wire thing at end does not go far. Drain Weasel goes about 2 feet in, but it's flimsy plastic round rod with nylon brush. Steel coil Sink Snake - 1/4 inch coiled cable with thin swirled cable at end. Initially punched thru the 2 foot mark and then easily 3 feet, but still no water flow. Hydro Snake - 3/8 inch flexible plastic tube (kinda stiff) that hooks to tap and has a forward jet and 3 rotating side jets. pushed it in 2 feet and ran water with a rag to plug up the entrance. Felt pressure build up and ran for 27 seconds. Lots of really black water came out with chunks of black stuff that looks like charcoal. Eventually was able to go in 3 1/2 feet after emtying 3 buckets of water. Now as far as it will go before I stopped to go to bed. Hope to poke thru 4 feet tonight, unless it's hit a T-connection. If a lot of water come back out, I suspect, the clog might be below the T-Contection going to the main line. Water may be filling the vent going above the T-connection and draining back once I unplug the rag at the entrance. If I can get a hose extension to the faucet, I might also get another 3 feet of hydro snake if it can even go that far into the pipe. Steel Coil can now go in 3 1/2 feet, but seems to have no effect on breaking up clog. I cannot find an exterior cleanout plug for the kitchen pipe. (do older houses have them? Built in the 1950s) At this point, Draino and caustic chems will not go UP the curve of the pipe. I may buy a drum auger, but not sure if it is felxible enough to make the first turn up into the pipe and then the left turn into the line. Also considering using my wet/dry shop vac. Any thoughts? Edited by BillHoo, Jul 24 2017, 08:48 AM.
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| cwatkin | Jul 24 2017, 09:09 AM Post #2 |
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Try putting everything back together and plunging the hell out of it. I have to do that from time to time but have to make sure any air leak is plugged or plunging is worthless. I also pour rid-x down the drain once per month to eat away all those deposits. Conor |
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| BillHoo | Jul 24 2017, 10:24 AM Post #3 |
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Thanks. There is a dishwasher connected to the garbage disposal and the line is old and possibly brittle. I don't want to mess with pinching off or removing the line to block. I had tried plunging earlier, but I think it just pushed water up the dishwasher hose. Been watching videos about how plumbing is laid out, and roof vents and such. I think the old hand/drum auger should do the trick. Or I might consider renting a powered auger from Home Depot. The challenge is trying to get a more heavy duty auger/snake past the turns in the pipe! then trying to determine whether the sudden stop is the clog, or the end of the T-connection in the pipe? If no one has further ideas, I'm going to try the folowing in this order: - Shop vac on wet setting. First blowing out for a few minutes to see if I can use mild air pressure to blow it out. If no success, I'll set on vacuum mode. My theory is all this activity in the drain has loosened all the chunky stuff that is now adding to the blockage. Some good suction might pull some of the stuff out. - Hand/drum auger - See if I can get it past the bends and really work it thru. - Hydro snake - really felt I had progress with this. Keep water drilling till I can push more tubing in and break thru. Lots of stuff was coming out last night. I only stopped to shower and go to bed. Even declined the fried chciken dinner my wife made. I told her her when I'm working on a sewer line all afternoon, I don't want anything finger lickin' good for dinner! - Powered snake rented from Home depot - last resort and only if I can get a hand auger thru more than 5 feet first. - call a plumber. Edited by BillHoo, Jul 24 2017, 10:26 AM.
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| MarkZ28 | Jul 24 2017, 10:44 AM Post #4 |
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Try vacuuming all the water out with the wet vac. Go to a hardware store, find a real heavy duty drain cleaner that comes in a bottle inside a plastic bag. Buy gloves and a face sheild. Stuff is verrrry corrosive and will harm you quick if it gets on your skin. If theres enough it should get to the plug and eat away at it. May have to buy 2 jugs. If the other stuff doesnt work, this may be the only option ither than a professional. Hopefully the pipes wont need replacing. |
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| MR1 Kingsbury | Jul 24 2017, 02:17 PM Post #5 |
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Exp. builder/rebuilder
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maybe you could start your snake in at the top of the vent pipe and run it down all the way. or find an access port in the vent pipe and start it in there.... I assume the vent pipe terminates on the roof? |
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| Moringa | Jul 24 2017, 02:46 PM Post #6 |
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Living BOT
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Don't know if this will solve the problem, but the expanding bladder tool called "Drain King" works, where other things don't. The problem you always run into on these type of fixes, is sealing off all areas where the pressure can bleed out, including roof vents. |
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| t3ragtop | Jul 24 2017, 04:00 PM Post #7 |
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Turbo3 and Twincam Tweaker
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you know that when you make soap you take animal fat/grease and mix it with lye which causes the grease to congeal so that it's possible to form it into bars. when you have a drain pipe that is stopped up with grease, the very last thing you want to do is pour drain cleaner down the pipes. just like making soap, the drain cleaner will almost immediately render the grease into a gob of a solid blockage. ![]() i recently had my kitchen sink stop up. i worked at it with a drain snake for an entire day and didn't get anywhere. finally i went to the hardware store and picked up a "drain king" blaster. i removed the trap so that i was into the 2" pipe. i dragged my garden hose into the kitchen, screwed on the blaster, stuck it into the pipe, and turned on the hose. i jetted the drain 3 times and it popped! use cold water and after you hear the stoppage open up keep the jet running for a good long time to run the clog all the way out of the pipe. it took me all of about 15 minutes to open the pipe with this bladder tool where i had worked hours to no avail with the snake.
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| BillHoo | Jul 24 2017, 05:14 PM Post #8 |
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So, this is the latest. Got a brasscraft hand auger with bulb head on ¼ inch coiled snake. Worked it through what felt like 4 pipe fittings that seem to correspond to the twists and turns with what I see downstairs in the basement plumbing. I drilled down to all 25 feet of the snake! The bulb gets white stuff with hair mixed in it! We never put hair down the kitchen sink, so I suspect we have hit the main line and I’m getting gunk that moved there from the bathrooms on the other side of the house. I did this three times and I used the Hydro snake and got clear water out. But so far, no sink flow. I’m going to try it again 2 or 3 more times. Thanks for all the ideas folks! -- @MarkZ28 - thanks. Already tried chemical clog solutions. they are not recommended as they can damage the garbage disposal. Also, I found that unless there is water flow through the drain, nothing goes past the P-trap. The clog is somewhere 25 feet past the P-trap in a big air gap space . If there were water flow, I’m sure chems would go past the P-trap and over to the clog. @MR1 Kingsbury – I think I’ll get a plumber to go on the roof with their equipment as my 25 foot snake will not reach the clog. This is if the current snaking from the drain is still unsuccessful. @t3ragtop – I have considered the Drain King. Is it flexible enough to go past the first bend at the pipe? |
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| t3ragtop | Jul 24 2017, 05:50 PM Post #9 |
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Turbo3 and Twincam Tweaker
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billhoo, you really only need to get the bulb into the pipe 6 to 8 inches. it's the pressure that blows the clog out. your garden hose will put something on the order of 60 psi in the pipe behind the stoppage. that's way more than enough to push the mass on through the pipe. the drain king comes in 3 sizes, 3/4" to 1 1/2", 1 1/2" to 3", and 3" to 4". whatever water pressure you have in your system makes the bulb swell up an lock itself into the bore of the pipe. on the end of the bladder there is a hole about an 1/8th" that shoots a stream. after the pipe fills with water you will have the total applied pressure against the back of the clog and that pressure dislodges the mass and blows it down the pipe. that is the best way to deal with a grease clog. as soon as the clog gets a small hole started, the pressure will emulsify the grease and blow it down the line. we do the same thing to a stopped up municipal sewer except we use 3000 psi through a 2" hose from a jetter truck.
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| Moringa | Jul 24 2017, 06:29 PM Post #10 |
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Living BOT
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As I mentioned before, the real power in the Drain King is when you pressurize an area where there is no leakage, like another line or roof vent. If the water is coming up in another sink, toilet or tub, when activated, you're not going to get too far. If you push the garden hose and Drain King close to the blockage, you have a whole lot better chance. Also, in the NEVER DO category, I have some advice. If you're using a power snake with the type of end where you can put different cleanout tools on it, and use a screw to hold them in place, please note: You NEVER run them in the reverse direction, unless absolutely necessary. Their strength lies in that the ends are screwed into the direction of the snake "winds," and brazed or welded in place. In the reverse direction, it's like unscrewing a bolt, versus tightening, in the normal direction. I broke the end off one of these once, and was lucky as hell that I got it out with a magnet. Usually, you're talking digging, and serious bucks to get the busted piece out. |
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| BillHoo | Jul 24 2017, 06:41 PM Post #11 |
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MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! I was getting ready to buy a Drain King and a 50 foot 1/2 inch snake, but I gave the drum auger another try: http://www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCraft-1-4-in-x-25-ft-Power-Pistol-Grip-Drum-Auger-BC86250/202755049 ![]() (Image provided by Home Depot - NOT PhotoBucket!) On try number 4, I stopped at every block, turned the crank a few times until it pushed thru. then I pulled it back and forth 5 to 10 times and stopped in the middle to crank it around a few more times before moving on. Repeat that process at every block or pipe joint. I used all 25 feet of the snake. Retrieved the cable and got chunks of black stuff that looked like charcoal with bits of hair and a either wood fragments or small rat bones. Try number 5 - same as above, trying to change my angle a bit more as well. I pulled the cable completely out of the drum. So I knew I used all 25 feet of it and probably reached the main line. As I retrieved the cable, I wiped it with a rag. I noticed more goo sticking this time. But fewer chunky black bits. Also, I noticed it no longer snagged coming back in. I put everything back together and ran the water. after 30 seconds it began to pool as usual. DRAT! I turned on the disposal and that started forcing water past the P-trap. It sounded like it was straining and the counter vibrated. then BURP! water started going down the drain and the disposal sounded normal! Good sign. I called my wife in to witness as I created a swirling whirlpool going down the sink! Behold what your beloved husband had wrought! I command the waters to depart!! We ran hot water for 10 minutes without any backups. she told me it has not been this clear ever. We had been dealing with slow drain for 10 years since we bought the house. We always thought it just needed periodic draino gel. Ran water for another 10 minutes when I had a horrible thought!!! What if my rough handling of the snake had poked a hole thru an old rotted pipe? It could all just be pooling in the basement now! I ran downstairs with a flashlight and examined the walls and the closet where the main line ran thru. Bone dry! no drips or puddles! Whew! Stopped running the water after 25 minutes satisfied. I'd read somewhere the black stuff is organic matter. white stuff is mineralization and calcium scale. Maybe next weekend if we go out, I'll pour in some draino followed by a few quats of water to get it past the P-trap and let it sit for the weekend to let it break up more stuff. the following weekend do the same with a gallon of vinegar. Or I might break up stuff and cause another clog! Edited by BillHoo, Jul 24 2017, 07:29 PM.
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| MR1 Kingsbury | Jul 24 2017, 07:01 PM Post #12 |
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Exp. builder/rebuilder
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Ye haaa... water and drains always worry me too..... if it unclogs and starts running good.. the first thing I wanna know is where is it going.... good on ya to check the basement and pipe outlets. Hope it last for a good long time... |
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| BillHoo | Jul 24 2017, 07:39 PM Post #13 |
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According to Home Advisor, the average cost to snake a drain is between $127 and $282. For the Northern VA, DC Metro area, I'd say it's maybe $400. So I guess I can afford treat myself to a beer and a burger somewhere this week. |
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| t3ragtop | Jul 24 2017, 10:32 PM Post #14 |
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Turbo3 and Twincam Tweaker
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in the sewer business we have a saying - if it flows, it goes.
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| cwatkin | Jul 25 2017, 08:38 AM Post #15 |
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I would still suggest using some Rid-X. Give it a treatment before you go to bed or some other time when you know you won't need to use that sink for a while. A long weekend vacation is also great. The enzymes in this stuff eat away at all the gunk that builds up in pipes. Conor |
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