Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Posted ImageWelcome to the all new Geo Metro Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit.

You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are features you can't use and images you can't see. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Join our community!




Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Ground for coolant, cam, and isc sensor
Topic Started: Sep 4 2017, 07:24 PM (1,030 Views)
Brandon8791
Tryn Hard!!

PLEASE READ WHOLE BODY.

Ok so I have been having some fun with the metro lately within the past 6 months first time it killed itself randomly and set 6 codes. I was like cool went and bad it checked was for air bag and a few other things told them to reset it and it's never been back, so then I had another post on here a week or three ago about my coolant acting up, so I bought a scanner per a members suggestion and plugged it up, coolant is fine and fan is coming on at 205 like it should cutting off at 190 or 180 I can't remember.

Well now I was on the road and the car randomly shut off, wouldn't start for 5 to 10 mins, finally gave it another try and it fired up with a check engine light. (Kept completely losing power but running and then could shift to 4th or 3rd and would go again) and it kept losing power could put it to the floor with no response but shift down or 2 seconds or so later it would pick back up and run like it was fine! And it has ran fine this whole week until today again it acted up, so I put it in third floored it til it hit 75 then put it in 5th and drove fine all the way home for 45 mins about 30 to 40 miles.

I drive this car about 400-600 miles a week. So I figured all this has to be linked together by a ground. So here I am, decided to clean the ground behind the throttle body under the isc motor because it looks like the isc, and the cam sensor (which I know is the distributor) runs to the back of the throttle body so I'm assuming that is their ground points. Loosened the bolt, scrubbed it around for atleast one minute total, then bolted it back. Now what I don't know is if this is also where the coolant gauge ground is located. I just figured I'd try to clean the grounds if possible that are easy to get to, unless there is a ground I need to do that is causing one of these problems. I think someone mentioned there is a ground behind the radio but I havnt gotten back there to look yet.

Also THANK YOU EVERYONE ON HERE THAT HAS HELPED OR EVEN THE ONES READING THAT THOUGHT THEY COULD HELP. been a member of this forum a lot time and you all have been amazing! I forget to come back and thank you all when you do help, so I just wanted to let you all know I appreciate it a bunch!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
freegeo
Member Avatar


If this is your 2000 3 cyl. 5 speed there is actually 2 sets of ground wires that attach to the back of the intake. Don't forget that those wires also have to make it back to the battery. Wouldn't be a bad idea to check the rest of the ground wires going to the battery.

Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Brandon8791
Tryn Hard!!

Yeah I thought I noticed 2 sets haha, hard to see back there! I did try to take the transmission ground loose, couldn't get it, but it was cleaned when clutch was changed 20000 miles ago. I also just replaced the post connectors and also cleaned it up very well. Does this seem to be a grounding issue to you, you think?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
freegeo
Member Avatar


It could be a ground, wiring, connections or a number of other things. It is not easy to find something that is a intermediate problem. Basically you just need to eliminate possibilities.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Brandon8791
Tryn Hard!!

I just thought it was weird everything is all happening somewhat closely together it doesn't make sense to me. I opened the distributor cap up and it looks fine as well I saw some people's blew apart inside with wires everywhere. The wiring looks fine and flexes easily in all places so it's not hard or anything like that or brittle but doesn't mean it can't fall apart somehow inside. I just don't see why it would all go at once together. 😂😂 I've been doing a decent amount of maintenance on this car the past year

Used distributor which has been fine, replaced last one due to a pickup being broken off my last one by previous owner, has new plugs wires rotorary, cap. New ball joints (just replaced whole control arms. New tires, keep synthetic in and oil change on time as well with filter. New timing belt, tensioner, water pump. Has a solar panel on the hood with charge control inside hooked to battery, light bar. Has been good for 40k miles or so. So Idk
Edited by Brandon8791, Sep 4 2017, 09:15 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
suzukitom
Member Avatar
Tom

Quote:
 
now I was on the road and the car randomly shut off, wouldn't start for 5 to 10 mins, finally gave it another try and it fired up with a check engine light. (Kept completely losing power but running and then could shift to 4th or 3rd and would go again) and it kept losing power could put it to the floor with no response but shift down or 2 seconds or so later it would pick back up and run like it was fine! And it has ran fine this whole week until today again it acted up, so I put it in third floored it til it hit 75 then put it in 5th and drove fine all the way home for 45 mins about 30 to 40 miles.


Did you find out from the scanner what the check engine code is ?

The symptoms do sound like the fuel injector is starting to fail. Intermittent engine cuts out while driving, with restarts possible for a while until it quits altogether.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Brandon8791
Tryn Hard!!

It's whatever the cam sensor code is. P360 or something I don't remember but it did show camshaft position sensor
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
freegeo
Member Avatar


It would be PO340 for the cam position sensor. For the code to set the PCM would have to not see a signal from the cam shaft position sensor while cranking. Possible that the engine died and while trying to re start the car the code was set.

You would have to check and see if the camshaft position sensor was out putting a signal or not. Your engine currently runs, so it is not the sensor itself.

I wouldn't put a lot of emphasis on just this code. You usually get it when the car won't start at all.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Brandon8791
Tryn Hard!!

I truly believe all are linked together which is why I'm trying to see if maybe it's a ground or something... but I couldn't just take it to someone and ask them to look at it because it took a whole week before it did something again, although the temp gauge fluctuates randomly... one day it will do something other day it may not, never know. But I feel all 3 are probably linked together. (Have to floor car before I start it with a load on like the headlights so the ISC will idle correctly) otherwise sometimes it idles right sometimes it idles low like it's already to operating temp... so that's why I'm throwing the isc in there, but it's been like that since I got the car so I've learned to just floor it two or three times before I start it lol, as for the temp gauge, it randomly dying, setting that code, and all other codes that one time that just started happening recently, temp gauge started first, now the dying randomly without a check engine light besides the cam sensor code that one time because it wouldn't start back but then did, Idk what could cause it or even a way to trace it down since the car won't tell me anything, and I don't know what would even cause a situation for it to run like that and then fall flat on it's face but then pick right back up 2 or 3 seconds later then stop then go then stop it wouldn't fully die until well, I let it lol because I decided to put it in neutral and it shut off that's when it wouldn't start and then after about 20 mins of tinkering I gave it another try after several attempts and it just fired right back up, granted it jerked a few times until I put it in 3rd from 5th and floored up to be about 75 then it was fine for that whole week and had to do the same yesterday... Idk this one has me scratching my head honestly because Idk where to even looked besides cleaning the ground wires...
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
freegeo
Member Avatar


Do you have a code reader or scan tool that can get live data from the pcm? Like temp readings or short and long term fuel trims? That could be helpful in figuring out what is going on.

My car does the similar low idle thing. My stft is at -20 when this happens. Which means it is getting too much gas. I have injector issues.
Edited by freegeo, Sep 5 2017, 12:09 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
freegeo
Member Avatar


Have you ever taken the air cleaner off and opened the throttle and looked down the throttle body before starting the car? Look and see if you see any gas puddled at the bottom of the intake manifold.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Brandon8791
Tryn Hard!!

I did back when I got the car and it was fine but havnt checked in awhile so I probably could. Do i need to turn the key over before I do so, or check it after it's sat overnight? I do have the Bluetooth obd2 to check that yes, which is how I found out about the temp gauge reading correctly

Also if the Iinjector was leaky or something wouldn't it run rich or smell like gas? It smells like a normal running car to me. Lol if it is the injector it won't surprise me since the car 358.7k on it

2nd edit: I should also add the car idles fine if the isc does it's job right, but it seems I do have to do the flooring 2 times (90-95% of the time) in order to get it to idle where it should before I start the car. Again that other 5 to 10 percent I can just turn the key over and it'll idle where it should. So Idk that may be an injector it may be the isc, I'm not a mechanic really... I've just learned everything from you guys which I greatly appreciate. Gives me a good knowledge of how to work on most cars honestly. But what you tell me to check I will to the best of my ability if I can. So I can try to do the short term readings while I'm here in the parking lot idling

Edit 3
Ok so STFT fluctuated between 3.1 and up to 14 while just idling but stayed mostly between 7 to 12 I don't know if that's normal or not

Edit 4, vacuum is at 19 to 21 at idle btw car is warmed up with these numbers, the STFT is now -2 to 3 with it being more warm when I first started coolant was around 160 or 155 I think

5th edit, should probably add that the car was idling normal maybe a tad bit high but nothing crazy I forgot to look at the rpm. Should probably also note the timing is a tad bit advanced, to where it should be according to the forums to make it a tad bit peppier and get "better gas mileage which I honestly believe, because it made the car feel better when I changed it over 2 years ago.
Edited by Brandon8791, Sep 5 2017, 07:09 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
freegeo
Member Avatar


Quote:
 
Do i need to turn the key over before I do so, or check it after it's sat overnight?


You don't need to turn the ignition on. Just look at it after it as set overnight.

Quote:
 
Also if the injector was leaky or something wouldn't it run rich or smell like gas?


You would think it would be rich but that is what the O2 sensor is for. If it sends a rich signal (above 450 mv to 900 mv ) to the pcm, the pcm uses the short term fuel trim (STFT) to adjust it.

When the car is warmed up 160 to 170F, let the engine idle. Check to see what the rpm is and check the short term fuel trim and long term fuel trim (LTFT). The STFT and LTFT is fine if it is around + / - 5 at a idle. STFT will fluctuate some up and down more so that the LTFT.

Your vacuum looks like it is pretty good.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Brandon8791
Tryn Hard!!

I should also note the oxygen sensor that goes after the converter is wrapped in aluminum foil and zip tied under the car, I don't have a converter now, just straight piped. Besides resonator and muffler. As far as the LTFT, I am using an app called torque and it does not offer long term fuel trim unless I buy the paid version which I can, but if it's not needed then that would be great to stay with the free version. I can check the rpm here in a min when the car cools back down to 160 to 170. Thanks! Will check back in, in a few minutes!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
freegeo
Member Avatar


Rear O2 sensor won't matter. Don't worry about the ltft for now.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Engine Tech & Diagnostics · Next Topic »
Add Reply