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Starter Question
Topic Started: Sep 23 2017, 06:10 PM (538 Views)
CraigHanscom
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1st... if I turn the key with plenty of juice and It makes no sound is their anything other than a starter it could be?

2nd... does anyone know if another year starter will fit on a 91 but just not turn over because the gears dont mesh or something?

Full story. I turned my key one day and nothing. Removed the starter and put one my brother had around in it's place (not sure what year it was). I turn the key and it probably sounds like it is engaging the starter but nothing either. (It may or may not be engaging. I cant really hear good enough to be sure)

I just want to know if, "yea, it's your starter buddy." before I spend the money on it.

Thanks!

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freegeo
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You need to check if you are getting voltage at the s terminal on the solenoid when turning the key to crank the engine over.
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Metromightymouse
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Powdercoat Wizard

You can follow the troubleshooting in my signature under the starter 101 heading to get an idea where the issue is.
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CMA


You better to update your dead image.


i guess it's no start but crank problem.
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Dystopiate666
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Tree Banger

I do believe (as the block, and trans are interchangeable) that you can pull the starter from any metro and it should crank any other (3 cyl) metro. Sounds like you have an electrical issue. If you have battery voltage at the s terminal and battery voltage at the main terminal with key in the start position, then your starter is bad, there is no substitute for testing.
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Metromightymouse
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Powdercoat Wizard

CMA
Sep 23 2017, 07:14 PM
You better to update your dead image.


i guess it's no start but crank problem.
Done. They are now hosted on the forum so they shouldn't ever disappear again.
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CraigHanscom
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Ok, so I have a new battery. I turn the key and you can see the system is grabbing juice as all the lights fade and then it makes a humming sound. No click and no turn over.

So I need to find out wherever the S terminal and Main terminal is and test those for power. (Are those two spots easy to find?)

Also if I unbolt the starter and leave it hanging and then try and start the car obviously if it is spinning then the voltage is good. But then I would assume the starter is good too.
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freegeo
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Here is a picture of the solenoid and s terminal. It is not super easy to get to but can be reached once the air cleaner is removed.


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Attachments: S_terminal.jpg (57.86 KB)
Edited by freegeo, Sep 24 2017, 08:37 AM.
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MarkZ28


If you let it hang, you will have no ground so the starter wont turn over at all. Run a ground to the block(big enough gauge) and then try it. Best way to check if it spins is to remove it and bench test it by using battery cables, putting the ground cable on the body of the starter, the positive cable on the large terminal on the solenoid, and using a jumper wire from the positive cable to activate the solenoid. Just touch the small jumper wire to the starter connection(small terminal/blade) and if the starter jumps and spins its fine.
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CraigHanscom
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Thanks guys, I'll do all that tomorrow and report back to you.
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Metromightymouse
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Powdercoat Wizard

Yep, best to test the starter itself away from the car. Set the starter so you can see the opening with the gear. When you power it up the gear should jump forward and spin. If that happens very energetically then all should be good with the starter (small possibility of issues that won't show when the starter isn't under a load). If it doesn't jump forward with a hard click or doesn't spin fast immediately then there may be a problem with the starter. Humming implies that the solenoid is actuating and then the starter is binding up or the engine is refusing to spin.
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Dystopiate666
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Tree Banger

You can access the two connections on the back of the starter a little easier if you take the breather off so you are looking directly at the throttle body, especially if it is your first time getting back there and getting an idea of what you are looking at. It is really common for the spade connector on the s terminal to get loose or the wire to get corroded at the terminal end. A lot of times your starter issues are really obvious if you can actually get eyes on it and spot a loose nut or corroded spade connector. If the big nut that holds the main power from the battery is nice and tight, it is most likely not going to be your problem, as raw spots in the power on that line would cause sparks to be thrown and main fuses to blow, so if that lug is tight, I like to just run a wire right from battery positive to the small s terminal (spade connector). if you experience the same symptoms, most likely a new starter is going to solve your issues....

But as Metromightymouse said, you still at that point, wouldn't have ruled out the engine from stopping the starter, which would mean you have much, much bigger problems.....
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MarkZ28


To verify if engine is stuck is to either use a socket and breaker bar and see if you can spin the engine that way. Also, if its a manual trans, put it in 5th gear and push the car backwards, it should turn the engine over fairly easy.
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CraigHanscom
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The engine turns over because we jump started it and drove it home.

I had the starter tested and it said it was good but smelled like a skunk (burning wires). I'll check the other one too right now.

But THIS does make a clicking sound...

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Edited by CraigHanscom, Sep 25 2017, 11:05 AM.
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Dystopiate666
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Tree Banger

That's a relay clicking. Your starter click will be more of a clunk.....solenoid closing as opposed to a magnetic switch closing. If you can jump start the vehicle with the "bad" starter installed, then the starter is not your issue. Most likely a bad battery
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