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Cool heat; Warm but not hot output
Topic Started: Dec 23 2017, 09:32 PM (1,102 Views)
Maybemaybenot
Noob
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Geogonfa, I took the intake hoses off and blew air through them, so I assume it's not clogged.

Sphenicie and geogonfa, thanks for the flush info

And freegeo, I haven't heard the fan kick on and wondered as to the significance of that...
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freegeo
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That's not normal for a 1.0 to not heat up to were the radiator fan would run if the car sit and idles for a period of time.

Do you know if any type of stop leak has been used in the cooling system?
Edited by freegeo, Jan 19 2018, 01:47 AM.
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Maybemaybenot
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Stop leak? Not to my knowledge. Does anyone have any information of that black steel pipe coming from the bottom of the radiator to the back of the water pump? Is it possible that it could be blocked preventing circulation throughout the engine, all at the same time, the engine not overheating? I suppose my next step will be a full coolant system flush.
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sphenicie


Maybemaybenot
Jan 19 2018, 02:27 PM
Does anyone have any information of that black steel pipe coming from the bottom of the radiator to the back of the water pump?
That pipe is +/- 18 gage tube. The ID is just ever so slightly smaller than the OD. Not likely clogged.

Have you pressure tested the system, yet? Parts store should have loan-a-tool, so it will not cost anything.

If you start the car with the radiator cap off, and watch as the engine gain temp, you should be able to see when the stat opens and coolant begins to flow. You want to have the coolant drained down a little, to the top of the core. This will allow for expansion and make it easier to see.

I, my self would replace both radiator hoses they are 20+ years old. Could be the hose is compromised on the inside.

One other thought........it could be that the 'cable' for the hot/cold adjustment is not located correctly, and you are not getting into the full hot position. The 'cable' is actually a solid steel 'rod', in a plastic sheath. The sheath clips in up under the dash, 'behind the radio'. I forget which color it is, but if you slide the knob and see which one moves. Then make sure that it is traveling fully through its range of motion.
Edited by sphenicie, Jan 19 2018, 04:54 PM.
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freegeo
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If you let the engine warm up at a idle without the heater fan running, what temps do you get on the engine with you infrared temp gun?
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Maybemaybenot
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Thanks for the input, Shpenicie and Freegeo. I will look into pressure testing the system. Observing the coolant move when the stat opens and replacing the hose(s).

I actually haven't tested the temp w/o the heater fan running, but will check that later. As for what temps I do know, with the dash guage at mid temp:
Cylinder head +/-150°
Exhaust manifold is irregular +/-320° to +/-415°
Heater core inlet +/-95°
Heater core outlet +/- 88°
Radiator inlet +/-150°
Radiator oulet +/-80°
Intake manifold hoses +/- 117°
Exhaust pipe out the back of the car +/-72°

Maybe helpful/maybe irrelevant the exhaust manifold temperatures for each port were not consistent ranging nearly 100° differential. Also, would the exhaust pipe temp being only 72° be significant?

I will check the pressure guage, hoses and coolant flow when I can get to it. Thanks again for the suggestions and support!
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Woodie
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Maybemaybenot
Jan 21 2018, 02:18 AM
Heater core inlet +/-95°
Heater core outlet +/- 88°
Intake manifold hoses +/- 117°
This doesn't seem like enough to me, I'd expect them to be close to thermostat temp.
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sphenicie


Woodie
Jan 21 2018, 06:47 AM
Maybemaybenot
Jan 21 2018, 02:18 AM
Heater core inlet +/-95°
Heater core outlet +/- 88°
Intake manifold hoses +/- 117°
This doesn't seem like enough to me, I'd expect them to be close to thermostat temp.
AGREED.

95 deg and 88 deg look like deg C, instead of deg F.

This is why i suspect a pressure loss.

The boiling point of water at 1.1 bar pressure is about 257-260degf. Our system operates at 0.9 bar, or 254-257 deg. Pressure loss brings this down to 212 deg at sea level and 1 standard atmos.
Edited by sphenicie, Jan 21 2018, 07:05 AM.
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sphenicie


yesterday was a nice day, temps in the mid 20's. So i was out doing chores. I spotted a new Suntech temp gauge, and thought, hey, why don't i stick the sensor end in thru the radiator cap and see what happens.

This is what i found for you.

Ambient temp 25 Deg F. Removed the radiator cap. Removed coolant as it came up, so it would not overflow. i started the car, 93 xfi, new stat 3-4 weeks ago.
It took about 5 minutes for the dash temp gauge to reach mid point or normal operating temp. This was only 105 deg F at the top of the radiator. Top hose warm, lower hose COLD.
I checked back every couple minutes, without much change. At the 10 minute mark the only change was the Sun gauge was at a needle above 110 deg F, lower hose still cold. Both heater core hoses warm.
At 15 minutes of idling time, no change from 10 min.
At 20 minutes, no change, so i began raising the rpms a little, kinda up and down between idle and 2k. After about 30 seconds the temp went up to 195, and stat opened, visible flow at top of radiator, top and lower hoses HOT, both heater core hoses HOT.
Then, with in seconds the uncapped radiator began to boil. I put the cap back on.

Although this was not a vary scientific study, it should give you some thing to compare to.
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sphenicie


Maybemaybenot
Dec 23 2017, 09:32 PM

What puzzled me was that the steel tube that comes from the water pump to the bottom of the radiator. It had a temp north of 100° from the pump up until the 90 degree bend at which the temp fell like a rock down to like 80°.
This is 100% normal. this is because the coolant is flowing to, and thru the heater core, as well as the intake manifold. Until the stat reaches temp other flow is not permitted. This is also why the lower radiator hose does not warm until stat opens.

The time it takes at idle is much longer than driving. In fact, at 25 deg f, i do not think the engine will build enough temp to kick the fan on.





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poorman1


Do you have the t-stat with the gasket ?
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sphenicie


He lists a 94 in his signature, so he should be running the 44mm stat without the rubber seal.

If someone changed the housing, or did an engine swap with a 95+ block and did not change the stat housing........

Really good idea there poorman1!

wrong stat/no seal, would allow coolant to "bypass" the stat.
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freegeo
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Do you have ac on your car? If not has the ac condenser been removed from the front of the engine compartment?
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Maybemaybenot
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Freegeo, no on the AC and there for there is no condenser. I have been tied up lately with my wife's 07 Honda odyssey. Oil leak (valve covers?) Wheel bearing assembly, drivers side power sliding door actuator, transmission (medium to hard downshift) whew! I have got so much to do that I just might have to take a day off!
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freegeo
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You may want to think about getting a ac delete plate or making a grill block to cover the opening some. You don't want to cover all. Leave most of the radiator area open.
Edited by freegeo, Jan 24 2018, 10:59 PM.
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