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| Doug DeMuro rants on the Mirage | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 28 2017, 02:36 PM (1,836 Views) | |
| PTA2PTB | Jan 2 2018, 12:26 PM Post #46 |
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I'm totally awesome! I swear.
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That's my sentiments, too! What sucks about going up to a Hyundai, Fit, Spark, or Corolla, is, not only are they way more expensive, but you also get the mpg penalty to boot. That's a double-whammy. I could almost justify an extra couple grand, for a better built and overall nicer car, if only the mileage were as as good, if not better than, the Mirage's. The only way to get mpg's that rival or best that of the Mirage, is to go to something like a Golf or a Prius, and those are just stupid expensive, IMO. I seriously considered, and almost bought, one of those Fiat e500 electric cars, like former GMF member Shaft did not too long ago, but after doing a lot of thinking about it, and a little research, I realized that, even though I could make it to work on it's original 87ish mile range, and then recharge it here at work to get me back home, come the winter time, when I'd need to use the heater for warmth and window defrosting, I wouldn't be able to, reliably, make it to and fro for 57 miles each way, on a single 87 mile range charge. Added to that, there is currently no provision to replace the battery down the line, once if finally craps out, from Fiat. |
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| cwatkin | Jan 2 2018, 12:52 PM Post #47 |
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Yeah, the Kia Rio 6 speed can be had for under $13000 or so and is more solid feeling but doesn't get the mileage. I liked the car overall but the local dealer wanted to play nothing but games so I walked out. I would assume there are aftermarket battery rebuild kits for the Fiat 500e or will be. I once knew a guy who was into the Prius the way we are into Metros. He had several of them and bought one from an insurance company that had been totaled by a lightning strike for like $300. He rebuilt it from junkyard parts for next to nothing over the next few months. The thing was only 2-3 years old at the time so he ended up with a nice car. He said the hybrid systems are actually pretty easy to work on and reminded him of swapping components in a desktop computer. He said I would be able to work on one without issues. He also mentioned that everything had a diagnostic mode that would tell you what went wrong. Then there was the battery. He bought a dead battery pack for the controller (his was fried) and then rebuilt the packs by buying replacement cells or battery units. He spent like $200 on this. I suspect there will be some way to rebuild that Fiat but you never know. It would make sense that they all use basically a standard part inside. Laptop batteries are a good example of this. They may look different on the outside but they are all the same inside when it comes to the cells. Some may use 3 cells while some use 9 or 12 but the cells are all the same. Conor |
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| Horn | Jan 2 2018, 05:09 PM Post #48 |
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I agree about the mpg thing for us, but not everyone (although EVERYONE wants to save the world and demand everyone else to be more "green") are worried about that max mpg number. The girl I know with the hyundai might put 8,000 miles on her car a year. Say her car gets 30mpg average and the mirage would get 40mpgs, that's only about a $150 difference per year. It seems that a lot of people see cars and lump the ones that get 35mpg or better all into 1 group. So let's say you are one of those people, then the mpg number doesn't come into play. Then you are focused more on road noise, comfort creatures, etc. One of my issues, although really petty is that back seat looks like one of the cheapest things I've seen put in a modern car. They really didn't even make an attempt on that. Also the fact that these are cheap used. I'll wait like I always do and get one in a few years for cheap. |
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| PTA2PTB | Jan 2 2018, 08:59 PM Post #49 |
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I'm totally awesome! I swear.
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I know just enough about EV vehicle battery systems, to know that, I know nothing about EV vehicle battery systems. In what little reasearch I did do on the Fiat e500 prior to almost buying one, it appears that it was something they rushed to market, in order to comply with the state of California's "green fleet" initiative requirements. They had Bosh design and manufacture the battery system for it. Seemingly, that should be a good thing. Problem is, it's proprietary, and, as far as I know, there is, at least currently, no aftermarket manufacturers for refurbished battery packs for them. And here's the funny/scary part. The MSRP of a replacment battery pack, is over $50k, even though the whole car, brand new, was only around $30k. Additionally, you need some kind of dispensation from Fiat, to even be able to buy one. Basically, they were intended to be throw away cars, once the battery packs are worn out. Maybe someday some enterprising Lion battery pack refurbishing company will being offering alternatives for e500 owners, whose batteries are nearing the end of their serviceable life, but, until they do, it's just not worth the $10k risk of buying a car that may be near useless, come 5 or 6 years from now. Initially, I was under the delusion that I could simply buy a Lion battery, one about the size of typcial lead acid car battery, and strap it down in the back, and figure out a way to tap it into the charging system, to either give me a little more range, or give me a back-up battery, should the primary one get too disharged to get me all the way home. Can't be done. At least not without a whole lot of know-how and electrical reconfiguring. Heck, you can't even plug the car up and turn the heater on, to heat the car up in the winter time before you leave for work. All vehicle system must be off during charging. |
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| PTA2PTB | Jan 2 2018, 09:18 PM Post #50 |
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I'm totally awesome! I swear.
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You're probably right, in that, most car buyers don't put as much emphasis on trying to obtain the highest mpg possible, as many of us here do. And when shopping for a car, as long as one offering is within 6 or 8 mpg of another, they, likely, view them as near equals. But, for my car buying dollar, given that I put 28k miles on one a year, 6 or 8 mpg difference, makes a pretty big difference. I really wanted that Fiat e500 And if only it had had enough reserve range capacity to gurantee I could make it to work, even in the dead of winter with the headlights burning and the heater going, and do it after a presumed, and eventual, 25% battery charge capacity degradation, I would have bought it. My boss is pretty cool. When I approached him about it, telling him I would park it in the back, by the shop, plug it up to one of our 220v outlets, and pay him back whatever it costs for the current I use, he said that wouldn't have been necessary, to repay the company for my current usage. How sweet would that have been? Better yet, if the car had the range to get me home and then back to work the next day, I would have hardly ever had to even pay for charging it; just use the company's dime. Free "gasoline". |
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| suzukitom | Jan 3 2018, 12:29 AM Post #51 |
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Tom
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I might be a bit biased since I stopped buying other makes and stopped selling the ones I have.. anyhoo.. When someone starts looking at new cars to replace their Metro/Swift: It's not about finding a car with significantly better mileage. (in today's traffic jammed roads, the Metro's real world mpg still shines, and you don't even have to put up with the annoying stop-start technology in new cars, or the complexity and lengthening breakeven point for electric cars.) It's not about getting into a new inexpensive car with more character. (no explanation needed here.. well okay, a bit... visit your typical new car forum and consider how long it will be before its members attempt to modify their car's wiring without an engineering degree, or attempt to do some metal work or real mods on their thin, ultra high strength steel panels, or to even find a car with a pleasant manual transmission option!) It's not about significantly lowering your current cost of car ownership.(If it were, you would be considering bicycling or public transit, or just buy the lowest mileage, nicest Metro you can find, and still not pay more than $3,500 or so, while saving about $7,000 in up front cost on a cash deal on a new car, or more if financed). If you reside in North America, the biggest reason for considering a new car is that you simply can't buy any of the last 3 generations of new cars that Suzuki built to succeed the 2001 Metro.. and that is the most relevant reason why I keep mine. Think about it. (I'm glad you folks that bought Mirages are happy with them but..) You are comparing and wavering between a 17+ year old Metro and a 2017 new car. That contemplation only happens if your inner voice is telling you don't really want to give up your car.. (unless you can keep your Metro stashed in the back 40... just in case)
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| Horn | Jan 3 2018, 01:33 PM Post #52 |
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The mirage could be the most reliable car ever built and would still have the stigma of being a POS due to being a small econobox. |
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| Cobrajet25 | Jan 4 2018, 12:10 AM Post #53 |
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Lol...you guys are hilarious. Here we have a brand new car with: -power steering -power brakes -automatic climate control -power door locks -power mirrors -power windows -tilt wheel -seven airbags -ABS -traction control -TPMS -rear wiper/washer -rear defogger -45 mpg -CD player -USB -remote keyless entry -keyless ignition -touchscreen audio with Apple Carplay and Android Auto -huge warranty -rear backup camera -fog lights -cruise control -steering wheel audio controls -Bluetooth -alloy wheels -leather-wrapped steering wheel and shifter -6-way adjustable driver's seat -variable interval wipers AND YOU CAN'T RATIONALIZE PAYING WHAT A METRO COST 20 YEARS AGO?? It's equipped like a 2008 Lexus! Edited by Cobrajet25, Jan 4 2018, 12:22 AM.
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| Woodie | Jan 4 2018, 06:17 AM Post #54 |
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Damned good point. I paid $10,500 for the Magnum Metro in 1998 |
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| Cobrajet25 | Jan 4 2018, 06:25 AM Post #55 |
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And I bet you don't regret spending that money one bit. Funny thing is, I am not even adjusting for inflation!
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| Johnny Mullet | Jan 4 2018, 07:23 AM Post #56 |
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Fear the Mullet
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I have no regrets buying my Mirage and I am even financing it. Don't care. Love the car
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| Horn | Jan 4 2018, 09:49 AM Post #57 |
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Because my 2002 jetta TDI has most of the features, more power, the same or better MPGs and costed me $1200. You mention those features like they are hard to come by at $10k. I What I'm saying is that at $11 or $13k, I could put down a few more K and get a car that looks a lot nicer. Has more power, way more comfortable and will have a better resale value. You are comparing the mirage to a metro. I'm comparing it to other cars. And no, I couldn't rationalize buying a metro in the 90s when gas was less than $1. So you are saying there is no max amount of money you would spend for a mirage? You would pay $15k? I'm not saying it's a bad car. I like it, but I don't think it's the greatest thing ever. Everything has a price point where you should be like "it's too much".... |
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| Horn | Jan 4 2018, 09:51 AM Post #58 |
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how much? $150 a month? lol. That's a nice car payment. Better than the college kid who only makes $700 a month getting a $350/month car. |
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| WiscoMetro | Jan 4 2018, 03:53 PM Post #59 |
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Seeking the Science of MPG
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Just for commentary Cobrajet: -power steering, I do not lift, nor can I easily do 40 pushups, I have never had an issue turning with nonpowered steering... Harder to turn with engine off. -power brakes, Point being? Metros had power brakes -automatic climate control, If my feet are cold I want the fan on full blast regardless of what some thermistor detects... -power door locks, A true good feature, prevents iced up lock in winter making you crawl through hatch issues! -power mirrors,Power mirrors are nice, though equally as good as inside adjuster lever ones. Those you need to roll the window down when its -10 to adjust are annoying! -power windows, Keeps windows from going back up when icy and prevent passengers from putting windows down on highway. -tilt wheel, Useful for taking the dash out. -seven airbags, Makes you wonder which way your head will be pinballed if you get in an accident, should you not be seated exactly as intended. Then $$$ if ever need to replace... -ABS, Cheaper insurance rates if nothing else. -traction control, Still probably would have slid into the ditch on Monday even if I had that. -TPMS, Purely government forced extra complexity. Then dash light every year or two from dead batteries -rear wiper/washer, Point being? Metros could've had that. -rear defogger, Point being? Metros could've had that. -45 mpg, Versus a 20 year older design still beating that at 258K miles. -CD player, Point being? Metros could've had that. -USB, There are these $2 things you can buy for USB power that don't make you listen to music from your phone when you just want to listen to radio and change your phone... -remote keyless entry, Wait I included that with why power locks are good above. -keyless ignition, Nice until you just want to listen to the radio on break... -touchscreen audio with Apple Carplay and Android Auto, Would rather have physical buttons on radio. -huge warranty, Seems nice, until you realize that it couldn't have that big of warranty if it was unreliable. -rear backup camera, Look over your shoulder for the same view in 3D. -fog lights, Would be nice. -cruise control, As long as it isn't adaptive. The point of CC is to maintain a speed... -steering wheel audio controls, Extra complexity necessitated by removing physical buttons from the radio itself... -Bluetooth, Or can just have an aux port to take calls through car speakers -alloy wheels, After a few winters you may get slowly leaking tires. Making your friend with an air pump fill them weekly... -leather-wrapped steering wheel and shifter, I got nothing there, Well that makes vegans take car off their new car wishlist. -6-way adjustable driver's seat, A simple lever for forward backward is plenty and faster to adjust. -variable interval wipers, Another true feature, so nice to have in light rain. |
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| 1DCGUY | Jan 4 2018, 04:01 PM Post #60 |
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Don't be a "Richard"
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OMG Clive, this one made me laugh!!!
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