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| Setting up a small Solar setup...Thoughts/experiences?; Fist Solar Setup | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 30 2017, 07:04 AM (435 Views) | |
| z34-5speed | Dec 30 2017, 07:04 AM Post #1 |
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Formerly "Tech Certified"
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I know a few of you have Solar setups already at your homes and I was hoping to get some advice and tips. I am piecing together a small kit to hopefully power my cordless chargers in my shop and eventually power the whole shop (waaaay down the road). I haven't bought panels or a controller yet, but I did go ahead and pick up a quality 3000w modified sine inverter, 100ah deep cycle agm battery, LCD voltage readout, and some general wiring. From what I've gathered. The 100ah battery will provide a maximum of 1200watts for 1 hour, 600w for 2 hours, 300w for 4 hours, etc. I'm looking at a 100w panel with a 20a MPPT controller, with the possibility of adding additional panels in the future. I did a rough full load test of all the stuff in my shop (2 electric heaters, stereo with sub, old fridge, 5 fluorescent lights (twins), blu ray player (for CDs), and 3 cordless battery chargers. I pulled between 2-3kw over an hour span, which is 2-3000 watts I believe. I'm currently testing to see what my shop draws when everything is unplugged, minus the fridge. My power bill for just the shop hovers between $40-65 a month, depending on how much I'm out there and if I use the heaters. What setups do you guys have and what are your experiences? Thanks! |
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| t3ragtop | Dec 30 2017, 12:28 PM Post #2 |
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Turbo3 and Twincam Tweaker
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with as many suppliers as there are out there for solar equipment you will be able to find almost anything. the trick is to come to a decision on just what it is you want. pv panels come in different voltages and have to match the controller's voltage range. pv panels come in many power ranges as far as output goes. you can go with cheaper panels that can give you 100 watts with 4 panels and a controller for around $150 or a single 255 watt panel for around $200. personally, i'd go with a 255 watt 12 volt panel and a controller capable of handling either 12 volt or 24 volt arrays. the higher the total panel voltage, the higher efficiency you can get from the array. you can even get controllers that can handle 48 volts and higher. the efficiency comes from less line loss on higher voltage outputs. the bottle neck usually comes from storage capacity. newer battery types like the lipo packs are hands down better than lead acid batteries but those are generally more expensive. oddly, old battery technology like the 2 volt edison cells, fe or nife, last the longest. there are iron batteries out there that are 100 years old and still going strong. lastly, some appliances like refrigerators have motors that are extremely sensitive to inverter operation because their load presents a problem for cheap inverters. look for an inverter that has a true sine wave output to avoid issues with electric motors. a cheap inverter usually isn't a problem for resistive loads but when you put an inductive or capacitive load on them they don't do the job. down south where you are, you probably have enough sun to use a smaller solar system with good results. up here where i am a solar system has to be configured for less sun and things like snow covering the array. i'd need a system 3 or 4 times what you'd need to keep the storage batteries charged. the charge controller will supply power to whatever load you have with any extra power being diverted through the charge controller to the battery so day time operation will be much different than what your night time operation is as you won't be limited to battery reserve power. the best advice i have seen on the internet is to use a device like a watt miser to observe and record your total load in operation. then use that data to calculate and design your array and system.
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| evmetro | Dec 30 2017, 12:42 PM Post #3 |
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Sounds like you are on the right track by calculating your power demands. Make sure to take into account how long it takes to replenish your battery though. A 100 watt panel should be able to give you about 400 watt hours over the 4 hours or so of optimum sunlight per day, which may not be enough to replenish a 1200 watt hour battery. Also keep in mind that the math adds up better than it does in real life where natural power losses occur from your wiring and connections. Use the shortest runs possible, and use heavier gauge where you can. |
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| z34-5speed | Dec 30 2017, 09:46 PM Post #4 |
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Formerly "Tech Certified"
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Just checked my meter. In the past 24 hours, with only my ancient top/bottom fridge/freezer running, my shop has drawn 2-3kwh. That's waaaaaay to much for any setup in my current budget to handle. I think I'm going to just use the array for powering my cordless chargers and battery jump box. Power is cheap here, so it's unlikely I can significantly reduce my power bill without making a major investment that will likely not pay for itself any time soon. I'm hoping to gain knowledge from this to put towards a future Off-Grid camper i'd like to have. Thanks for the tips guys! Kyle |
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| t3ragtop | Dec 31 2017, 11:09 AM Post #5 |
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Turbo3 and Twincam Tweaker
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2 or 3 kwh systems that are actually useful would be around the $10,000 mark with good controls and batteries. in my area professionally installed grid tied systems of about 6 kwh run around $25,000. my brother in-law in michigan went all in and has a 16 kwh solar array combined with a wind generator that makes all the energy he needs to operate his farm, heat with a geo thermal heat pump system, and still have an excess of power to sell back to the electrical power utility. he actually makes money with his system while having the utility as a backup to his power system. he was over the $50k mark but has nearly paid off his investment after 6 years of operation. i think that he has a projected 10 year system life after which he may be on the hook for maintenance/ replacement costs. one of the good things he has is that the area below his massive pv panel array has been turned into an equipment shed for farm implements so his initial costs included a building that is partially heated by the power conversion equipment. after power leaves the shed it is just like a normal 2 leg 240 vac system. if you set up a smaller system you could probably very easily power all your power tool recharging needs and some led lighting. still, i would start with a scaleable pv array using 24 volt 255 watt panels that you could expand by adding new panels as you expanded the system. good charge controllers can handle array voltages from 12 volts and upward with no problem. a lot of guys go into solar without an expansion plan and end up with panels that don't fit into the expansion of the system. availability and cost of solar components is favorable right now but tax incentives and government money might go away pretty soon and change the cost structure. |
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| t3ragtop | Dec 31 2017, 04:32 PM Post #6 |
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Turbo3 and Twincam Tweaker
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400 watt solar shop. ![]() https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnSew-tCuPo |
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| t3ragtop | Dec 31 2017, 05:05 PM Post #7 |
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Turbo3 and Twincam Tweaker
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a layman explains his charge controller and panel upgrade. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMMzlB8BY-s&list=PLp1Rm233y0B8lH5r8UJsbVuckBwR7sa00&index=22 |
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| z34-5speed | Jan 4 2018, 10:37 PM Post #8 |
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Formerly "Tech Certified"
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Found a relatively local installer who sells individual panels. Picked up 4, 250w panels for $150 each. Came out to $.60 a watt. Pretty happy with that! Now to figure out how and where to mount them! |
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| t3ragtop | Jan 5 2018, 10:34 AM Post #9 |
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Turbo3 and Twincam Tweaker
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a 1000 watt pv array is fantastic! what voltage are the panels? find an mppt charge controller for your system as that will maximize your system's efficiency on the input side. some of them will even give you a connection for your computer to create daily production data files that make it easier to fine tune things. without that option you are just guessing. there are many ways to mount panels. some of them are pretty fancy and will actually track the sun's arc across the sky to maximize power production. if you build a mount that allows you to adjust its angle you can correct for seasonal changes as the sun's angle changes its track from summer to winter. the easiest mount will just have a fixed average angle based on your location's latitude. consider the location. is it dusty where you are? the panels have to be cleaned from time to time as even a fine layer of dust hampers output (dust nearly shut down the mars rovers until they sent a technician up to clean them. )every panel manufacturer has dedicated hardware for mounting, L clips, Z clips, rail systems, etc. allow space under the panels for ventilation. there are specs for temp and lower temps usually make more power. one of my bro-in-laws has a 6kw array that was commercially installed that uses 4x4 posts and uni-strut steel with the lower panels at about waist high and the higher panels ending at about 12 feet off the ground. he's grid tied so that all of his power production goes to the electric utility through a separate smart meter. the utility pays him at about 40% for his power vs. the 100% they charge him for running his house so the payback is much slower. my thought about his system is that he gives up a pretty large expanse of his property for the array. ideally, you would want to locate your 4 panels so that they have maximum exposure to direct sun all day long. trees and structures that shade the array knock the crap out of production. almost everyone i know that builds a hobby solar system rebuilds it over in a year. they learn from the first build and every subsequent build improves the system. you can research things 'til the cows come home but you will learn more from your mistakes. |
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| sixtharmy | Jan 5 2018, 11:59 AM Post #10 |
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Concerning batteries: Anytime you discharge lead/acid cells past 50% capacity you significantly shorten their useful life. A deep cell battery with an expected ~5 year life may only last 1 or 2 years if regularly discharged past 50%. In addition, while bulk charging will bring a lead/acid battery from 50 to 80-90% charge pretty quickly, bulk charging from 50 to 80-90% and also getting the last last 10-20% while absorption charging will probably take longer than sunlight will supply any given day. The upshot of this is that you can only expect to be able to use about 35% of your battery bank capacity on any given day, unless you want to spend a great deal of money constantly buying new batteries. Also, due to the Peurket effect, the power available from a battery varies depending on how fast that power is being drawn. For instance, a Wallmart Everstart Max (sort-of) deep cycle battery rated at 92 Ah when drawn on for 100 hours (the rate Wallmart advertises) will only deliver about 75 Ah when drawn on for 20 hours (the industry standard measure). Concerning refrigerators: You might want to look into compressor fridges built to run on 12/24 Volt. In operation they typically only use 3-5 amps per hour at 12V. They're pretty expensive new $800-$1000, but you can find them used on ebay/craigslist for $250-$500. Brands include Waeco, and Norcool. If you can try to make sure the one you buy has a German built Danfoss compressor and not the less reliable Chinese knock-off. Edited by sixtharmy, Jan 5 2018, 12:01 PM.
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| evmetro | Jan 5 2018, 12:28 PM Post #11 |
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More on batteries. Lead batteries like 77 degrees, this is the temp where they last the longest the further up or down with the temp, the shorter the life. |
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| z34-5speed | Jan 16 2018, 12:14 AM Post #12 |
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Formerly "Tech Certified"
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Got a ton of work done this weekend. Decided to go with a budget grid-tie setup. Purchased a cheap 1000w grid-tie inverter, a few kill-a-watt meters, and the associated bits and pieces (well, most of them: more on that later), and the wood to mount them. We decided to mount them on the top of my wife's craft shed. It was the place that got the most amount of sun throughout the day, with zero shading. Although we are mounting them to the shed, we are burying the wire once they are wired in parallel and putting the actual electronics inside my garage/shop to put power into its grid (it has its own meter). I'm still short a few pieces. Namely, wire to run from the panels to the shop (needing about 35ft), a "Y" solar connector to run the panels in parallel, and a cooling setup for the inverter itself. Hoping that an additional benefit of putting them on the shed is that they'll help keep some heat out of the shed. Also really strengthened the roof of the shed on that side. I'll let the pictures do the talking from here out. Hopefully will be finished by next weekend! Kyle ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
Edited by z34-5speed, Jan 16 2018, 01:20 AM.
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| z34-5speed | Jan 17 2018, 10:16 AM Post #13 |
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Formerly "Tech Certified"
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Snowler power!
Edited by z34-5speed, Jan 17 2018, 10:17 AM.
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| z34-5speed | Jan 22 2018, 01:35 AM Post #14 |
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Formerly "Tech Certified"
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Got it all wrapped up this weekend! Ran the wiring from the panels to my "Solar Corner" in my shop, and got everything wired up and running! Today was my first full day of making power. From sunup (panels turned the inverter on at 7:05) to sundown (around 5:30 is when they shut down) I to put 3.014KWh back into the grid (about $.30). My max wattage produced was 525w at 12:30ish, and the inverter managed to put 460w of that into the grid. I wound up having to wire the panels in parallel because my inverter cant handle the combined voltage of a series setup. Having the panels in parallel also will help with shading because it sees 4 individual panels rather than 1 large panel if it were in series. I thought that might be a bit low for a 1000w setup but, according to the Solar forums/groups, that's actually pretty good for the winter months. Should pick up significantly in the summer months. I was pretty happy with the efficiency of the inverter considering that it's a cheap ebay special, but it hovered around 85% efficiency throughout the day. The biggest drawback with the cheap inverters is the poor cooling and the tendency to overheat. That's what kills most of them. Mine started getting pretty warm around 250w and got quite toasty at 500w. Considering i'm expecting it to make closer to 700w eventually, I needed to address the heating, so we set up a fan to help it out. I put the fan on an outlet timer so that it'll only kick on from 8am to 4pm. Fan draws 40w when running. I also went ahead and located my deep cycle battery near everything so that when I do decide to build a battery backup, i'll already have a spot to do it with plenty of room. All in all, i've got about $1000 into it, which will take a while to pay back, but i've learned a lot and am glad to have gotten my feet wet. Here's the pics of the progress the weekend, culminating with the final setup, tell me what you think!: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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