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OEM timing table
Topic Started: Jul 12 2018, 11:33 AM (166 Views)
8803
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Does anyone have a factory timing table for a G10 NA....engine... ot turbo

Thanks
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freegeo
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What do you mean by a factory timing table?
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8803
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freegeo
Jul 12 2018, 12:19 PM
What do you mean by a factory timing table?
The table the ECM refers to to set timing for a given RPM.
or a graph that represents timing vs RPM for a srock engine.
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MR1 Kingsbury
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Exp. builder/rebuilder

Spark timing is established at low idle warm with ECM timing control disabled with the grounding of the aldl connector. Cam timing is not supposed to be adjustable (but we know how to).

timing is not adjusted by pcm ecm based solely on rpm.... engine load, vacuum, and throttle position are the other primary determinants as well as coolant temperature, intake air temp, and O2 sensors also play a part in spark timing..

The ECM/PCM control of critical engine parameters (primarily spark timing and air/fuel ratio) is one reason why spark plugs now last years instead of months. OR weeks in some critical cases.
Edited by MR1 Kingsbury, Jul 12 2018, 10:00 PM.
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suzukitom
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Tom

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from freegeo's emission stickers thread.
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freegeo
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8803
Jul 12 2018, 09:36 PM
freegeo
Jul 12 2018, 12:19 PM
What do you mean by a factory timing table?
The table the ECM refers to to set timing for a given RPM.
or a graph that represents timing vs RPM for a srock engine.
There is no table that I'm aware of. It is basicly like what MR1 Kingsbury and SuzukiTom stated. You set your base timing according to what the emission sticker states and the ECM/PCM adjust it for what ever the engine conditions are. Unless you have a vacuum advance distributor.

Suzuki did a good job of keeping their computer logic a secret.
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t3ragtop
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Turbo3 and Twincam Tweaker

the problem is that since the ecu is obdI it can't be communicated with like newer ecus. nobody has ever read it of decompiled the data to be able to see the injection and timing cells.

and what would you try to do with this info? you can't change it, nobody burns eproms for a turbo3 so data would be useless.

so, my answer is no, i have never seen turbo3 ignition timing data in the format you are requesting. that type of data organization didn't come until 5 years or so after the production of turbo3 cars was over.
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8803
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If I had a running... stock G10 engine I could make my own very crude table with a digital timing light. Crank....idle.....2000rpm.. and so on. Disregarding engine load.
t3ragtop... you have a ref table from your MS/Tunerstudio setup.
There was a guy that I cant find now that hacked and posted tables a few years ago.
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freegeo
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8803
Jul 13 2018, 09:00 AM
If I had a running... stock G10 engine I could make my own very crude table with a digital timing light. Crank....idle.....2000rpm.. and so on. Disregarding engine load.
t3ragtop... you have a ref table from your MS/Tunerstudio setup.
There was a guy that I cant find now that hacked and posted tables a few years ago.
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There was a guy that I cant find now that hacked and posted tables a few years ago.


Was it on this forum?
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8803
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freegeo
Jul 13 2018, 09:21 AM
8803
Jul 13 2018, 09:00 AM
If I had a running... stock G10 engine I could make my own very crude table with a digital timing light. Crank....idle.....2000rpm.. and so on. Disregarding engine load.
t3ragtop... you have a ref table from your MS/Tunerstudio setup.
There was a guy that I cant find now that hacked and posted tables a few years ago.
Quote:
 
There was a guy that I cant find now that hacked and posted tables a few years ago.


Was it on this forum?
In a Google search. A fellow was hacking and chipping Suzuki ECMs. He posted as I recall 12x12 tables of oem spark and fuel. This was 6 yrs ago and people on teamswift said he was out od business. Back in a day there was a buggy bilder that used G10 engines. I found his cam regrind guy still in business. He has a grind that works with stock ecu.... with some trickery.
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freegeo
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There has only been one person that I know of the has had any luck with Suzuki ecms. His website is not used anymore. Can't think of it off hand.
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t3ragtop
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Turbo3 and Twincam Tweaker

the guy was named rhino on teamswift and his business was rhinopower.

he really didn't ever get anywhere with the mk2/3 3 banger ecus, no one has.

and again, i do have .msq files that were generated as i tuned my turbo3 but you have to realize that unless your engine is identical to mine in every respect, my tuning files will do nothing for you and they have no relationship with the mapping of a suzuki ecu.

my .msq file as far as ignition density is concern, my total advance is 38 degrees in a 16 x 16 array based on engine load, rpm, and fuel load. also, ignition mapping is based on a single direct ignition in 3 channels. the factory ecu mapping is for a single coil lost spark with distributor. ignition mapping is very different in each case. the factory ecu probably doesn't have more than a 12 x 12 cell array for ignition mapping.

while i was doping out ignition and injection i measured piston height in the bore vs. degrees of crank rotation using a timing wheel and a machinist's dial indicator so i would know what the volumetric geometry was at all points. that was the basis for calculating valve timing, injection event timing, and calculated ignition timing.

at any rate, with the factory ecu even if you knew what the timing mapping was you would still not be able to do much with it as the ecu can't be modified. ;)
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freegeo
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Yes, that is who I was thinking of. Thanks
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8803
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What got me curious and caused me to post my questions was the the Suzuki idle timing which is 5 btdc @ 800 rpm.
All tables I have seen generated for the MS3 and the AEM-4 idle at 10 btdc.
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